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Wind is outpacing coal as a power source in Texas for the first time

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Re: Wind is outpacing coal as a power source in Texas for the first time

#21

Post by bit_logic »

tracker1 wrote: post #14

One thing I'm amused (not in a good way) by, is that there's so much FUD and marketing around the use of Coal etc. for energy and alternatives (Nuclear, wind, solar) ... I'm not necessarily knowledge enough to favor some over others. But I always felt, "because pollution," should be enough reason alone to look at alternatives, and considering the impact of building/supplying/disposing of the materials in the alternat…

For coal, maybe the focus on climate change and CO2 is the wrong way to fight this. Tell people to reduce coal to reduce CO2 for climate change and you will get a strong split along D and R lines. Tell people we need to reduce coal to reduce NOX, SO2, particulates, smog, things that people can see, breathe, and has universal agreement that it hurts lungs and health and suddenly D and R doesn't matter. Everyone can get behind that, who can argue against pollution you can see in the sky? Especially if there's a clean alternative that's cheaper. Why not focus on this point more? By winning the fight on these grounds, you also indirectly win the CO2 fight for climate change.

Re: Wind is outpacing coal as a power source in Texas for the first time

#22

Post by 6thaccount2 »

adrianN wrote: post #10

How difficult is it to build transmission lines in the US? In Germany we have enormous problems building a transmission line from the offshore windparks in the north to the industrial centers in the south. NIMBYs are opposing it fiercly.

It depends on the region, but most of the US doesn't have too much of a problem.

There is always pushback from locals (understandable), but there has been billions in transmission built in the Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, and West Texas regions to name a few areas. A lot of this is to help with the existing (ageing) infrastructure as well as helping make sure the ~22GW of currently built wind capacity can actually serve load and not be curtailed 24/7. In fact, a lot of that wind wouldn't have been built without the necessary transmission. Keep in mind that there is greater than a ~2:1 return on investment from these projects (difference in production cost in a year with the projects there and then not there) if I recall correctly.

The Western Interconnect of the US seems to favor using RAS and phase-shifting transformers in order to avoid as many transmission projects. A Remedial Action Scheme is basically an automated system that keeps certain catastrophic events from happening when a certain triggering event happens. Phase shifting transformers can help push back on certain interregional flows. I think this makes more sense in the Western Interconnect as it isn't as much of a dense network as the Eastern Interconnect. You have dense load centers in Denver, California, and Oregon/Washington with a dessert and mountain range in the middle (forms a donut). It is very rural over the vast majority of the distance, so I imagine transmission is pretty expensive and harder to justify. They do have interregional planning groups in the West though.

Re: Wind is outpacing coal as a power source in Texas for the first time

#23

Post by 6thaccount2 »

thebeefytaco wrote: post #8

Primary Source: http://www.ercot.com/content/wcm/lists/172485/DemandandEnerg... (Excel file) You can find the data they're referencing in the "Energy by Fuel Type" tab.

I don't think this will get you all of the wind power in Texas as the panhandle of Texas has at least one major utility participating in the SPP market as well which is next door.

Re: Wind is outpacing coal as a power source in Texas for the first time

#24

Post by zamalek »

favorited wrote: post #13
tracker1 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar in the US.. but will vary greatly depending on where you're going to/from. Of course, the NIMBYs are really against expansion of nuclear power, which by all means should be much more common than coal at this point. Especially in relatively stable locations like inland Texas, for example (and most of the non-coastal southwest us). A little NIMBY/FUD goes a long way.

Oh I've seen NIMBYs lose their minds over wind turbines too...

Yep, it's "the noise."

Re: Wind is outpacing coal as a power source in Texas for the first time

#25

Post by chiefalchemist »

What's shocking to me is that so much of Texas' energy production is __not__ from oil.

I read the headline and expected to find coal at say 4% and wind at say 5%. That is, coal is so small it wouldn't take much to out so it.

But both over 20%? That's a surprise.

Re: Wind is outpacing coal as a power source in Texas for the first time

#26

Post by kadoban »

bit_logic wrote: post #21
tracker1 wrote: post #14

One thing I'm amused (not in a good way) by, is that there's so much FUD and marketing around the use of Coal etc. for energy and alternatives (Nuclear, wind, solar) ... I'm not necessarily knowledge enough to favor some over others. But I always felt, "because pollution," should be enough reason alone to look at alternatives, and considering the impact of building/supplying/disposing of the materials in the alternat…

For coal, maybe the focus on climate change and CO2 is the wrong way to fight this. Tell people to reduce coal to reduce CO2 for climate change and you will get a strong split along D and R lines. Tell people we need to reduce coal to reduce NOX, SO2, particulates, smog, things that people can see, breathe, and has universal agreement that it hurts lungs and health and suddenly D and R doesn't matter. Everyone can ge…

I think you overestimate the sanity of the current political climate on the right in the US. There is absolutely not going to be anything close to everyone getting behind cutting back on coal or any pollutant, regardless of how you sell it. There's morons out there specifically making their trucks spew black sludge into the air and bragging about it. The current president won with a large part of his message being bringing back coal. I don't think the details of the message are the problem, rationality is leagues away.

Re: Wind is outpacing coal as a power source in Texas for the first time

#27

Post by icebraining »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #25

What's shocking to me is that so much of Texas' energy production is __not__ from oil. I read the headline and expected to find coal at say 4% and wind at say 5%. That is, coal is so small it wouldn't take much to out so it. But both over 20%? That's a surprise.

Oil is more profitable for other stuff like vehicles and plastics, it'd be a financial waste to burn it for electricity.

Re: Wind is outpacing coal as a power source in Texas for the first time

#28

Post by tootie »

tracker1 wrote: post #14

One thing I'm amused (not in a good way) by, is that there's so much FUD and marketing around the use of Coal etc. for energy and alternatives (Nuclear, wind, solar) ... I'm not necessarily knowledge enough to favor some over others. But I always felt, "because pollution," should be enough reason alone to look at alternatives, and considering the impact of building/supplying/disposing of the materials in the alternat…

It's kind of nuts that there's a lobby in favor of more car exhaust. Car manufacturers had to negotiate directly with California after Trump rolled back Obama's CAFE standard. Corporate interests are now to the left of America's federal government.

Re: Wind is outpacing coal as a power source in Texas for the first time

#29

Post by chiefalchemist »

icebraining wrote: post #27
chiefalchemist wrote: post #25

What's shocking to me is that so much of Texas' energy production is __not__ from oil. I read the headline and expected to find coal at say 4% and wind at say 5%. That is, coal is so small it wouldn't take much to out so it. But both over 20%? That's a surprise.

Oil is more profitable for other stuff like vehicles and plastics, it'd be a financial waste to burn it for electricity.

Oh. Right. Oops. I did mean to say oil/natural gas.

Re: Wind is outpacing coal as a power source in Texas for the first time

#30

Post by mirimir »

> Texas produces and consumes more electricity overall than any other state.

OK, why? From an article in Texas Monthly:[0]

> More than half of the energy consumed in Texas is for industrial use, according to the EIA, while residential use—which in terms of sheer BTUs is the most in the nation, even as our per capita usage is relatively low—accounts for just over 13 percent. Transportation accounts for nearly a quarter, while commercial comes in slightly lower than residential.

I wonder what the major industrial uses are. Some is used in oil and natural gas production, I guess. And perhaps size accounts for high transportation usage.

0) https://www.texasmonthly.com/energy/texas-uses-energy-state/

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