How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people? • Hacker News Board

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#151

Post by ETHisso2017 » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 12:10 AM UTC

ianburrell wrote: post #134

rajeshp1986 wrote: post #97

I was really impressed by the top answer until I read this statement. "I mean, the Chinese government has also forced Tibetans to build a massive amount of greenhouses on the Tibetan plateau. Those Tibetans have no time to go to temples for worshipping any more, instead, they have to work in the greenhouses taking care of tomatoes. This is why Dalai Lama is not so happy to hear this." What??

There is also: "Some of these Uyghurs, Kazakhs are sent to the reeducation camps and they are forced to learn Mandarin Chinese and the latest drip irrigation techniques to save water and reduce costs."

Sounds like sarcasm to me...

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#152

Post by nine_k » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 12:16 AM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #133

jaaron wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely an impressive response, but it also looks like the sort of state sponsored responses typical of Chinese propaganda. That's not to say it's inaccurate, just biased.

The comment basically says that China has forced the Tibetans into slavery. Is that typical of Chinese propaganda? > the Chinese government has also forced Tibetans to build a massive amount of greenhouses...they have to work in the greenhouses taking care of tomatoes.

Did Chinese government ever mention liberty as a value?

Their story is peace, satiety, social harmony, collective achievement and glory — as long as subjects conform.

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#153

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 12:16 AM UTC

jpindar wrote: post #117

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you would ever hear something like that in Seattle. I’m guessing deep south somewhere?

I heard they don't even have internet in the deep south.

Pretty sure that was true when I was living there (unless 300 bps model dual up counts).

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#154

Post by sct202 » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 12:16 AM UTC

Theodores wrote: post #143

kaesar14 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this even mean? Almost 300 million people are agricultural workers in China, versus 6 million in the US. Despite that, we produce nearly the same quantity of food and export 140 billion dollars of food every year. The US has plenty of efficiency shortcomings, but in agriculture, the US agricultural sector is a modern marvel of engineering and efficiency.

US produce is industrial feedstock, not food. In the Brexit-headed UK there is considerable discussion about this, some Brits don't consider US food to be edible. Phrases like 'chlorinated chicken' get mentioned. Are those soy beans fed to people or pigs? Same with all that corn. None of it can be eaten, it has to be processed into corn syrup or fake potato crisps. There is no modern marvel of engineering, it is mono…

The funny thing with US soy beans is that the majority of our edamame and fresh soy beans are frozen and imported from China or Thailand even though we literally have fields everywhere growing soy beans across the country.

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#155

Post by tombh » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 12:16 AM UTC

qkhhly wrote: post #126

dmix wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the first answer has “Western media won’t tell you this”. Like there’s some western conspiracy to downplay Chinese agriculture industry. The Chinese media is constantly telling their people that the US is plotting against China and is hostile to them, so the citizens don’t get any crazy ideas like democracy and human rights. While simultaneously amplifying the bad news coming out of America to show the ‘dangers’…

I grew up in China and had all my education in China up until my undergrad. I got my PhD in a top US school. I consider myself highly educated even in US standards. When I was in China, I was very concerned about my country and my government. I was worried and feeling hopeless of my country. Man, was I young and naive. I have since lived in the US for almost ten years. Five years for my PhD and almost five years for…

I can appreciate your point, but I think it'd be good to say why. I'm European, so for example I found the GFW to be a refreshing and ultimately beneficial contribution to the world, simply because it maintains diversity - a global monoculture would cause serious problems. This isn't to say that Chinese policies are right, but rather that going against the West does not automatically signify malign intent. Indeed it is perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of the West, it has so many problems. But what exactly is China's context for so confidently treading it's own path? Is it not wanting to repeat the mistakes of the West? How exactly can that be achieved? I think that is part of the PRC's direction, but not entirely. What are the nuances?

Edit: I feel obliged to point out that supporting the GFW is not that same as supporting Tiananmen Square. In the same way I'm sure supporting Google/Facebook etc does not imply support for the Opium Wars.

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#156

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 12:16 AM UTC

wjmao88 wrote: post #113

nfoz wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am grateful for these "snide remarks", as to me there is nothing so important and interesting as trying to bring humans out of oppression and suffering (no matter who is the instigator). Something I found amazing (horrific) when reading the article: what if this writing only sounds snide to us, but not to others? Consider your examples: > Some of these Uyghurs, Kazakhs are sent to the reeducation camps and they are…

> But imagine if you believed the Uyghurs/Kazakhs are inferior peoples, and that Tibetan temples/monks are evil. That's a big stretch. More likely that 1. The author, like many Han Chinese people, was raised in a completely atheist environment, and just don't put any value on religious activities at all. 2. Again, like in many East Asian countries, Chinese people value/praise hard work above "enjoying life". So, what…

[deleted]

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#157

Post by chiefalchemist » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 12:25 AM UTC

saalweachter wrote: post #90

feral wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opinion: The tough truth is that improving the world at that scale is mostly about politics. Politics is how the nations allocate resources to problems. You maybe want them to talk about the technical fundamentals of the problem but the important bit is usually the politics. [A sibling comment says to look at TED talks. This is an excellent idea. Then, after a couple of years, ask why none of the solutions have been…

In the 1950s, building a moonbase would have been an engineering and technological challenge. Today, it's basically a political and economics challenge, to convince enough people it would be worth while to spend the time and effort to do it. Which is not to say there wouldn't be engineers involved, solving new problems, but we already know enough of the solutions that it's not really the sticking point now. (Which is…

> "Today, it's basically a political and economics challenge, to convince enough people it would be worth while to spend the time and effort to do it."

There's a quote by (I believe) Winston Churchill - which I can't seem to find atm - that goes something along the lines of:

Winning a war/battle is relatively easy. It's convincing them to let you fight that's far more difficult.

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#158

Post by nashashmi » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 12:25 AM UTC

tomp wrote: post #106

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #21

This and watching HBO's Chernobyl have prompted me to ask: how do communist countries work? Is there something I can read or watch to best understand things like who owns these farms, who profits from them, how do they pay workers, how do you buy a house, etc It's all as foreign to me as medieval peasants and nobles so I don't know how it works from day to day. The fact that China now has billionaires, and billionair…

China is not a communism these days (not sure if it ever was). It’s a market economy, just much less state-controlled/-directed than most Western economies (if you dispute that Western economies are state-controlled, just see US subsidies for agriculture and their political lobbying for Boeing)

I dispute this. China has always been a communist country. Once Mao took over, he made the country a single party system and treated the whole country and its people as an extension of the military.

China took this kind of social-government structure and paired it with a central director, persistently and steadily marching towards a self-sustainable future, at the expense of the freedom and prosperity of its people. Chinese had difficult time buying in the world economy due to a surpressed currency. The gains were seized by its government.

The power was more centered on its government and its government delivered, but not without losses. Famine, environmental waste, and loss of property were all ways through which they learned.

All in all, China took the world's developments and owned them. They stuck with poverty and low income to keep their efficiency super high.

The only free markets that exist are in employment systems. Everything else is state chartered, controlled, or influenced.

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#159

Post by thefounder » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 12:27 AM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #145

einpoklum wrote: post #54

The question should really be "How are many national economies keeping innumerable people hungry, even though there's plenty of food to go around several times over?" In most places in the world it's easy and cheap enough to produce food and distribute it. Actually, it's so easy and cheap that many world states artificially subsidize agriculture/livestock farming/etc. to prevent them from collapsing due to low prices…

World-wide more people die from the "side effects" (i.e., obesity) of too much food, than not enough food. https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-11-28/more-people-die-eatin...

Junk food is not "real" food

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#160

Post by lph » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 12:27 AM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #150

lph wrote: post #136

One thing that's not mentioned is that the freshness and variety of produce available in China is fantastic. There's much less refrigeration and transportation, so there's a good chance the produce you buy at the local street market came from nearby fields very recently. Seeing this as a visitor from the US is quite a revelation.

Which places did you visit, and observed this? I bet it's characteristic for large cities where the amount of produce consumed is large, and prices are higher.

Beijing, Xi'an, Chengdu, and a handful of villages nearby them. Also some roadside farmer stalls in between. I'm sure the quality and variety vary, but the sample I saw was impressive.