Dead End Jobs: Are You Suffering from Stockholm Syndrome? • Hacker News Board

Re: Dead End Jobs: Are You Suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?

#81

Post by ecounysis » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 9:32 PM UTC

dominostars wrote: post #52

MrFoof wrote: post #9

I've been mindful of this since my teenage years, which is why I swore to myself a few things before I had even turned 16: * If I don't like a situation, I will leave it. After all, the easiest way to change your environment is to escape it. * Fear of failure is a great motivator. When you quit without having another opportunity already lined up, you have a lot of obvious motivation to find a new job since your incom…

"* Fear of failure is a great motivator. When you quit without having another opportunity already lined up, you have a lot of obvious motivation to find a new job since your income is $0. I've found it easier than lulling myself into complacency by continuing to get my income from the source I hate" Just remember that you are a more desired candidate if you are actively employed, and that other available jobs might b…

You may be more desirable to a dysfunctional employer if you are actively employed, but working for another one of those is not the goal. A rational employer would judge a candidate on his/her ability to add value to the company, regardless of how they have chosen to spend the majority of their time recently.

Re: Dead End Jobs: Are You Suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?

#82

Post by throwaway_plat » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 9:33 PM UTC

SandB0x wrote: post #12

Dead end jobs destroy transferable technical skills. I've witnessed miserable scenes. Many people are stuck maintaining large pieces of poorly written software. They forget how to actually program because their work involves very little development, and becomes all about knowing how the specific piece of software works (and the company's admin procedures) so that they can fight fires and make minor changes. Escape in…

This assessment is spot on. I'm in this situation now. While I haven't forgotten how to program, my skills have plateaued and have been at this level for far longer than I'd like to admit.

I eventually realized that I needed to get out. I've sent out my resume and interviewed, but have had little success. I really had no idea how bad off I was until I started interviewing at other companies. I can't overstate the value of "practice" interviews. I wish I had done a few practice interviews before starting the process with Google because I did very poorly when I had a phone screen with them. That was a major confidence killer. After the Google failure I interviewed with Apple and went pretty far into the process. I felt like the interviews went really well (phone and on-site), but it didn't work out. I did a few other phone screens with companies after Apple, but nothing came of them. Ugh.

With a family to support I have to stick it out until I find something else. I really want to start my own company, but I can't afford to quit my current job. In the meantime I'm squeezing in work on side projects where I can. It's pretty depressing and stressful.

Re: Dead End Jobs: Are You Suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?

#83

Post by mkramlich » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 9:41 PM UTC

This is one of the reasons I prefer contracting/consulting. I feel like much more of a free/non-enslaved human being than I was before. I'm not totally "free", in that I still have to do things for others, follow external rule systems, I have to obey physical laws, etc. but I am more free than before. Closer to a state of bliss, as they say.

Re: Dead End Jobs: Are You Suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?

#84

Post by Periodic » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 10:07 PM UTC

sudont wrote: post #62

edw519 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They forget how to actually program because their work involves very little development, and becomes all about knowing how the specific piece of software works (and the company's admin procedures) so that they can fight fires and make minor changes. Great point. Perceived value of a programmer at a start-up: Quality & quantity of software built and shipped. Perceived value of a programmer in a legacy enterprise IT de…

I think we need a new name for these type of jobs, then. They're not actual programming positions, since development tends to be about solving problems. Maintenance and production are two lexicographic options that somewhat relay the scope of the position: higher than data-entry, lower than engineering. Much in the same way that a front-end is not necessarily a web developer. Maintenance is what the current discussio…

I would call it a programming position, at least in my case.

Most of my time is dedicated to maintaining a legacy application that is horribly written, but my time is mostly spent either trying to come up with inventive ways to code around the existing design decisions, or trying to come up with a way to improve the design without disrupting service.

It's very challenging to do well, but it is definitely not fun.

Re: Dead End Jobs: Are You Suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?

#85

Post by prpon » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 10:07 PM UTC

parfe wrote: post #72

pchristensen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Send me your resume and portfolio. I'm recruiting for my company outside of HR because we need more awesome people with initiative. The month since I started at Groupon has been the best month of my career. Mtn View or Chicago, your pick.

I was only ranting in what I thought was an appropriate thread, but thank you very much for replying. I appreciate the good will on HN. Keep in mind, I may just be declaring myself Parfe, King of Idiots but when I'm happy with my resume I'll definitely be in touch.

There will always be things you want to tweak in your resume to showcase your skills in the best possible light. I would say, get any resume with all your skills in it and float it around....starting with Groupon. Goodluck.

Re: Dead End Jobs: Are You Suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?

#86

Post by Periodic » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 10:11 PM UTC

notJim wrote: post #75

patio11 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did three years of maintenance programming on a proprietary enterprise Java Big Feaking Web App framework, fighting fires and making minor changes. I learned more about engineering in those years than in college, first job, and building two software businesses from scratch. Possibly combined. YMMV.

Writing and maintaining terribly-designed software is actually a really great way to learn software design. It makes it so that when you read about a technique or pattern, the application of that pattern is very real to you, in the sense of "Oh, if we had done this on component X of product Z, it would have prevent bugs like Y."

Understanding what to avoid can be as valuable as having an idea of what specifically to do. I feel like I'm learning a lot about the software development and management fields where I am now, mostly because I'm starting to realize why some things are so important as I learn about ways that the system can be terribly inefficient even while following the letter of Best Practices.

At least, I'm telling myself it's valuable experience so I can stick it out for the next six months.

Re: Dead End Jobs: Are You Suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?

#87

Post by Periodic » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 10:13 PM UTC

I don't enjoy my current job. However, as soon as I mentioned quitting after six months to my family and friends they reacted uniformly negatively. "You can't do that, it wouldn't be respectful to the people who hired you." "You'll make (friend who recommended and vouched for you) look bad." "It will look really bad on your resume to only have a job for six months."

It was enough to break my determination to quit and now I find myself looking for a new job much more casually. I have dreams about changing things from the inside. Let's see how long that lasts...

Re: Dead End Jobs: Are You Suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?

#88

Post by flashgordon » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 10:43 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #20

SandB0x wrote: post #12

Dead end jobs destroy transferable technical skills. I've witnessed miserable scenes. Many people are stuck maintaining large pieces of poorly written software. They forget how to actually program because their work involves very little development, and becomes all about knowing how the specific piece of software works (and the company's admin procedures) so that they can fight fires and make minor changes. Escape in…

They forget how to actually program because their work involves very little development, and becomes all about knowing how the specific piece of software works (and the company's admin procedures) so that they can fight fires and make minor changes. Great point. Perceived value of a programmer at a start-up: Quality & quantity of software built and shipped. Perceived value of a programmer in a legacy enterprise IT de…

I would remove the word "Perceived" all together (I can attest to it now and Ive only been here a month!). The other thing you missed with the value of a programmer in a legacy enterprise IT dept - ability to handle beauracracy and politics (i suppose thats one part of getting things done).

Re: Dead End Jobs: Are You Suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?

#89

Post by LiveTheDream » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 11:41 PM UTC

throwaway_plat wrote: post #82

SandB0x wrote: post #12

Dead end jobs destroy transferable technical skills. I've witnessed miserable scenes. Many people are stuck maintaining large pieces of poorly written software. They forget how to actually program because their work involves very little development, and becomes all about knowing how the specific piece of software works (and the company's admin procedures) so that they can fight fires and make minor changes. Escape in…

This assessment is spot on. I'm in this situation now. While I haven't forgotten how to program, my skills have plateaued and have been at this level for far longer than I'd like to admit. I eventually realized that I needed to get out. I've sent out my resume and interviewed, but have had little success. I really had no idea how bad off I was until I started interviewing at other companies. I can't overstate the val…

Practice interviews are definitely important because interviewing skills are not improved by work experience - they are improved by interviewing experience.

Interesting side projects are also really valuable. They can demonstrate individual initiative, show competency in different technologies/practices/industries, and provide interesting talking points in your interviews.

Re: Dead End Jobs: Are You Suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?

#90

Post by cookiecaper » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 11:45 PM UTC

Periodic wrote: post #87

I don't enjoy my current job. However, as soon as I mentioned quitting after six months to my family and friends they reacted uniformly negatively. "You can't do that, it wouldn't be respectful to the people who hired you." "You'll make (friend who recommended and vouched for you) look bad." "It will look really bad on your resume to only have a job for six months." It was enough to break my determination to quit and…

I've never had a job that lasted longer than six months. Some employers think it's weird but I don't really mind. Just one job that didn't last doesn't look so bad, just say "We just didn't mesh well", or something like that. There's no reason to let your friends scare you about that -- again, almost everything I've done professionally has had the universal disapproval of family and friends, and it's not that big of a deal. If you're unhappy, blow it; your family and friends aren't the people stuck sitting around hating their life all day every weekday. When I worked a "real job", I would always hate how short the weekend was, and spend most of Sunday in dread anticipating Monday's return to the death world of the office.