Earlier quoted context omitted.
>"will aggregate" This was an announced intention in April this year. The implementation of this decision probably needs further approvals and ratifications, and even after that, it takes time. The source material does not even exist, and I expect that in some EU countries collecting this data of all citizens will not be possible due to country legislation. Thus this is certainly far from complete, if even started at…
So we should wait until every one's details are leaked before deciding this is a bad idea because it will inevitably leak? This is like the police refusing to respond to death threats until the person is dead.
The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System
191–200 of 238 posts
Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
The future of the EU isn't safe beyond all doubt, so there's a risk this'll turn into a self-fulfilling prophesy of EU doom. There is certainly more potential downside than a lot of people seem to realise. The EU27 member states are not going to be affected in some uniform way by Brexit, particularly if we get the no-deal version without any sort of overall orderly transition. Those states that are particularly expos…
> This is why I find the Irish government's strategy puzzling: they continue to insist on a measure that has been a proven deal-breaker for an orderly withdrawal, I don't think the Republic of Ireland has a good alternative. If they accept a hard border, then they suffer some of the worst no-deal effects anyway. If they accept customs checks between the Republic of Ireland and the continent (effectively putting them…
Given that the rest of the EU has been giving RoI a de facto veto on any UK withdrawal agreement, and given that the backstop appears to be the only complete deal-breaker here, they could have compromised in various ways that would be strictly better for them than driving everyone into a no-deal outcome.
For example, accepting a time-limited version of the backstop while May was still in charge would probably have got the WA through the UK Parliament. Brexit would have happened, defusing a lot of the political tension in the UK and liberating the EU27 from having a half-in, half-out member and all the attendant uncertainty. Everyone would have benefitted from a more orderly transition, including keeping the Irish border open without needing checks due to either WTO MFN rules or the EU's need to protect its overall border. There would have been perhaps another 5-10 years to clarify the future relationship and resolve any issues still arising at the Irish border, which would have been a far more plausible than magicking something up overnight in the event of a no-deal outcome. And the EU would have been dealing with a basically pro-EU government in the UK while that was going on, at least for the next few years.
That possibility appears to have been lost with the arrival of Boris Johnson as PM. If the Irish do want a 23:59 reprieve, it's going to cost them a lot of political capital to get it at this point. But realistically, I don't see that happening. I think they've blown it, and either a no-deal Brexit or a UK general election that certainly could result in a majority hard-Brexit government now seem like the most likely outcomes.
Critics often say, with considerable justification, that this is a mess of the UK's making. Certainly the UK's negotiators haven't done very well in all of this. Still, if we're playing the blame game, I think there is plenty to go around. The EU's rigid approach and negotiating strategy also caused problems right from the start, and the Irish hardline stance on the backstop in recent times has essentially sealed their own fate. It's all very sad, because it won't matter whose fault it was if a decade from now, as the Irish government's own commissioned analysis suggests, their economy is still significantly smaller and real terms wages are still significantly lower.
I still don't understand why both sides went into this with such an adversarial and rigid approach to the negotiations. There was so much common ground that could have been established early on, and if we were going to have Brexit, we could have had an amicable separation where we remained good friends even if by mutual agreement our relationship was not going to be as close as before and we'd each gain a bit more flexibility in other respects. The whole thing just seems like not only a huge missed opportunity, but an opportunity missed by following a process where glaring mistakes were made by both sides and both sides refused to then fix them even when they were widely criticised. It's just... sad.
Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System
#193I reckon the five eyes were sharing these kinds of infos for years. After the Snowden revelations I tend to think that there ain‘t no info about us citizens that the three letter organizations don‘t have or cannot have. Phone call logs, personal infos, medical records, everything we can think of. If they are interested in something, they‘ll get it. Sucks big time. But it seems ain‘t nothing we can do about it.
The thing is: The moment you feel you could be observed or that you have no room for private thought or discussion, you start to censor yourself. Political discourse starts to get weakened. My gut feeling is this: Many people don't dare to express their true opinions even in supposedly private channels, fearing that these thoughts / ideas might come back at them years later. And I don't even mean radical thoughts. In…
If there's one thing the Internet has taught us is it not that most people's "true opinions" are merde?
I don't like it either, but I think we have hope of stabilizing on a kind of "greatest common denominator" of behaviour, but only if the systems that do the surveillance are self-referential: they must apply to the powerful as much as the little guy.
Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System
#194The title is incorrect. The Schengen Information System does not keep data for "all EU citizens", it only keeps such data for wanted persons, missing/stolen identity documents or objects (like cars, boats and so on). There is no centralized database for EU citizens photos or fingerprints (not even at national level in many countries).
Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
building the very idea of a community of nations in europe Like the League of Nations? And every other (defunt) supranational institution all the way back to Napoleon?
Your point is that since it wasn’t able to work before, it’ll never work? I mean, Leonardo Da Vinci wasn’t able to build a working flying machine, does that mean the Wrights were dumb to think they would succeed where Leonardo failed?
Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
> it's pretty well understood that in majority we don't want to leave, the other half are mostly a combination of naive, manipulated and coerced based on false claims and social media... What? There was a vote. A vote where everyone elligible had the chance to voice their opinion and the majority (albeit slim) said "we want out". As for the slur of being naieve and manipulated that's bullshit (from my standpoint anyw…
But the vote was poorly informed and actively manipulated. Many people voted leave as a protest against the state of the country, not the EU, and have said so. And many of the most persuasive statements made by the leave campaign were shown to be deliberate falsehoods. I respect the desires of those who genuinely wish to leave the EU, but the referendum result was not anything close to a true measurement of that, and…
Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System
#197Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's nonsense. Some English might claim indifference or scoff at the idea of an independent Scotland. In reality however the UK is more a part of their identity than it is ours - Scotland splitting away literally kills off the concept of the "UK". Force wouldn't even be needed however - Westminster can just brush off pleas for an independence referendum (they'll point towards the one we had a couple of years ago pr…
> there's no revolutionary movement ... yet. A few years of Westminster arbitrarily frustrating calls for independence, coupled with Brexit-induced hardships and a resurgence of sectarian violence in NI, could well radicalise the SNP into taking matters in their own hands.
Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
You say it like it's a bad thing. The UK has a lot more in common politically and philosophically with the US than the EU. TBH they should rename NAFTA to the North Atlantic Free Trade Area and we'd all be better off.
>The UK has a lot more in common politically and philosophically with the US than the EU. Not even close, let's take a basic fundamental US principle like the right to free speech, it doesn't exist in the UK. The UK has had relation ships with most of the European countries for longer than the US has existed. The UK has more import and exports with the EU that the US and because of geographic constraints this will no…
It's actually bang on the money. Two words: Common Law.
I would suggest, strongly, that the UK does indeed have vastly more in common with the US, at the most fundamental level. Our freedoms, law, government and society at large are based upon it, and this makes our countries much closer than any European nation based upon Civil Law will ever be. It's not just down to legalities, it shapes our entire attitude to how a society should run, and how the laws of the land are made and changed over time. In all these things, the UK and US are almost entirely the same.
Common Law is central to the fundamental philosophy, and political and judicial processes which make our societies run. Most European countries have Civil Law. It's very different, and I would argue that much of the friction between EU institutions and UK law (and public) is because it's trying to impose the Civil Law framework onto a Common Law system, and it's not really compatible. Much of the time, in the UK, we look at the actions and attitudes of EU political figures with disbelief. Because they make little sense, for people used to Common Law. In Civil Law, it's more understandable. The public's expectations are quite different in both systems, and this is a fundamental disconnect which can't be papered over. It's one of the reason many in the UK, including myself, feel that the rules-based EU is fundamentally undemocratic and unfit for purpose. Because from our rather less hidebound and laissez-faire point of view, this is absolutely the case. We're much more used to the "whatever is not specifically forbidden, is allowed" point of view. And when it comes to the law, we're used to our juries and judges being able to interpret and shape the law in new ways by common sense, rather than being rigidly stuck to the letter.
Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System
#200As a Danish citizen I’m deeply concerned about this and am strongly considering an FoIA request and lawsuit for lack of disclosure... if this is really true.
> FoIA honest question: Does this exist in EU or UK?