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Users hate change

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141–150 of 315 posts

Re: Users hate change

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point. I'm overall positive about subscription software, but I don't like the fact that it always seems to go hand in hand with DRM and other nonsense. I'd rather they take some modest amount per year and let me do whatever I want with the software. Its a headache to make the software work when the computer is on an isolated network and will never be connected to the internet. Office 365 I'm looking at…

On the other hand, I’m totally against subscription software because I resent having to pay again and again for the same product just to be able to use it a month later. What ever happened to making a product, selling it once to the customer, who then gets to use it as they wish for as long as it works? Why does everything have to be a recurring revenue stream? Because you have software engineers who need something t…

>What ever happened to making a product, selling it once to the customer, who then gets to use it as they wish for as long as it works?

That was the old business model. It worked well for a while. Then most small software companies that sold general purpose software went out of business doing just that. And with App Stores basically stealing 30% of all your sales, its become even more harder to do that. A lot of major software companies have since moved to the subscription model and have seen a bump in revenue and profit. For me, its not a bad value proposition for things like Office or Photoshop where I appreciate the updates.

>I don’t want to pay your software team over and over so they can keep changing it on me over and over. Just make it once, sell it, then go make something else!

Interestingly, after Photoshop moved to the subscription model, Serif released their Affinity Photo software that was a one-time-payment-no-subscription software to compete with Photoshop and to cash in on the discontent. I bought it to support their efforts, but I kept using Photoshop because its just a better software and I'm more familiar with it. It will be interesting to see if Serif is still around in 5-10 years..

Re: Users hate change

#142
You know, a lot of users would be more ok with change if it was demoed to them first, or given a heads-up, or they were given an opportunity to give feedback that co's actually use, and improve the product. A lot of people I know would say something to the effect of, "[Google/Microsoft/Apple/other co] can fly me out and have me test every product. I'll do it for free." Just because the practice of forced system updates and breaking changes is so god damn frustrating and it happens so often.

Back when I worked in medical software, it fucked up doctors' and nurses' workflow very, very badly for a whole workday (could be anywhere from 8-24+ hours), and it might stay the same way for years. Because even if they tell us to revert it, it's so low on our priority list that it just stays there forever. Users can complain forever and nothing will change because we refuse to prioritize the very thing they're asking for.

Tech co's don't really have a satisfying answer to this issue IMO. The most we do is bring in a few people off the street every few months to test the whole system, but usually we seem to just say "LG2M" when another engineer on the team says it should be fine. That's an engineer, not a user. You won't get quality feedback.

I guess when you keep telling new engineers some dark shit like, "Users don't know what they want", your industry will get pretty callous to its customer base.

Re: Users hate change

#143
post #107
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked Windows 7 so much more than Windows Vista I probably can't express it. Same when Firefox moved to a slimmer UI. Anecdata, of course, but "users will unfailingly hate ever major redesign without fail regardless of how much better it is" seems impossible to substantiate.

Not all users, but a large coalition of very vocal users--far more vocal than the coalition that likes any given change. I'm in the apparent minority of people who generally likes most UI redesigns. - Like you, I also liked Windows 7 immediately. And I liked Windows 10 immediately. (We don't speak of Windows 8--shudder) - I generally thought every iteration of FB was better than the one before it. - I liked the iOS r…

> I liked the iOS redesign immediately. Now we're all so used to it, and now looking back iOS 6 looks like a janky toy, but most people hated iOS 7+.

These two sentiments are not necessarily incompatible. iOS 7 absolutely made iOS 6 look old and clunky, and I could never go back. But I also still actively hate the pure-white world of iOS 7 seven years later, and don't get me started on the Safari icon. It'll be curious to see how things evolve in the post-Ive world.

I wonder if the opposite effect also exists: a solid redesign that also lifts up the previous version in hindsight.

Re: Users hate change

#144
> "This argument is both incredibly entitled and terribly egocentric, as well as being wrong-headed on several counts."

From a user's perspective, perhaps. That doesn't make it incorrect, however.

> "Firstly: humans don't resist change when it's something that they asked for, they resist things being imposed upon them against their will."

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”

~ not actually Henry Ford

> "There is an incredibly persistent cultural movement in product design that "we know best", this is a very parent-child style relationship: "Mother knows best", that both disempowers and disengages customers."

It's not that we know best, it's that we know better than to just listen to users. We have all the data and research. You have an opinion because you're upset.

> "Let me be clear: when I buy a product I am paying for what the product can do for me now. It fulfils a need that I currently have. I am not paying money out of my own pocket for a faint hope that the product may do something in the vague and nebulous future."

We are generally aware of this. However, when we develop a product, we have a process that, for various reasons, goes beyond your particular narrow view of our product.

> "When you as a product manager or designer or PO or whatever decide that your product should do A, B and C too, I don't care. I don't want those features, I didn't pay for them."

Indeed, not all user share the same requirements and therefore we don't develop the product for any one user in particular.

> "When you as a product person change the way that I have to use the product in order to do X, you are asking me to spend time, effort and attention to change my habits around X in order to do something differently, which may (or may not) benefit me in the future."

We apologize for the inconvenience.

> "In all likelyhood you made it easier for new users to learn X. I don't care about new users."

This is where your and our interests clearly diverge.

> "Every change that you make to the product after I have bought it makes it more likely that I will leave your product and find something else that does X instead, because the cost to me to learn how to something different in your product is now not much different than the cost to learn how to do something in a different product."

In all likelyhood, you won't. The cost of learning an entirely different product will likely still be greater than learning the changes we made. Furthermore, there is the cost of another purchase, as well as the sunk cost on your previous purchase.

> "The more times you force me to change my behaviour, the more badwill (being the opposite of goodwill) builds up. Eventually I'll become so pissed off that I'll move, no matter what the cost."

Really, no matter the cost? Who are you going to move to? The hypothetical competitor that never changes their product?

> "The vast majority of the effort that designers spend on look and feel, typeography, colour palettes, image choice and placement, tone of voice, button placement, size and style and a host of other things are of marginal value at best."

Design tends to either go over people's heads entirely, or it's highly important. I suppose you're in group A. Still, a product that hasn't had a facelift in a decade will have an appearance of being outdated, even if the underlying technology is modern.

> "Thirdly: the idea that you can just tell your customers to suck it up is a relic of last-century marketing that relied on captive customer bases and lack of customer knowledge, awareness and community. Modern customers are, in the majority, well informed and highly vocal with other customers in their community."

Vocal they are, indeed. A select few of them at least. Despite this, we will not have our product be held captive by these users.

> "The idea of EPP is thus: when you have a product that works, and an existing customer base - freeze it. Instead of a major redisgn because 'Material Design is so 2014' simply leave the product the way it is, bar minor BAU and bug-fix work. Instead devote effort into building a new, next-generation product that addresses (hopefully) a new customer segment, and allow existing customers to add this new product to their portfolio for a incremental fee. This allows existing customers to self-select into a new product, protects revenue and reduces the risk of existing product customers leaving due to badwill."

Unfortunately, there is no data to show that this is a terrible idea. Perhaps that's because not many would risk real money on implementing such a presumably terrible idea.

There are some known cases of drastic redesigns presumably killing a product. On the other hand, gradual redesigns as well as adding features incrementally are industry-wide standard practice. That process clearly works. Yes, users complain about changes. No, they generally won't switch because of them. They may delay upgrades, but that generally happens with or without changes.

Re: Users hate change

#145
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly? Because no software is free from bugs and there will always be a need for support. The difference between single sale and subscription can be life or death for a company, its products, and its support. But if you don't feel that a subscription to a service adds value, please don't buy it and voice your concern to the developers. Especially if they're a small shop. That said, subscriptions can be canceled. F…

> That said, subscriptions can be canceled. Ideally. Assuming you haven't bought into a contract, and assuming the company... you know... stops charging you once you stop using their product and "cancel" using the mechanism they provide. That second problem can be mitigated with single-use credit cards, like what privacy.com offers, but if that gets to be too common, I can imagine companies requiring you not use thos…

> assuming the company [...] stops charging you

This is what disputing charges is for. Once you have told them, even once, that you are canceling your subscription, any further charges are fraud and you should respond accordingly.

Re: Users hate change

#146

My pet theory is that every software product has a "peak version". Before that peak version, the product is not yet in a complete state, and it is fairly obvious, both for the developer and user, what features are missing. Once the peak version is reached, new features are not added because they improve the product, but to justify selling the product again to existing customers, and to 'keep the team busy'. Instead o…

Like OS X 10.6.8 ... everything was perfect in that version.

Re: Users hate change

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly? Because no software is free from bugs and there will always be a need for support. The difference between single sale and subscription can be life or death for a company, its products, and its support. But if you don't feel that a subscription to a service adds value, please don't buy it and voice your concern to the developers. Especially if they're a small shop. That said, subscriptions can be canceled. F…

> The difference between single sale and subscription can be life or death for a company, its products, and its support. Oh come on. Companies have been in business selling stuff for the longest time. It wasn't exactly wrecking capitalism before subscriptions became the normality in the last decade.

A lot of small companies that were selling shrink-wrapped software have shuttered down - for various reasons no doubt, but the effect of a steady revenue stream on any business cannot be dismissed. Most of the software I use is either free, under some kind of subscription, or has a large corporate brand/vendor behind it. What about you?

Re: Users hate change

#148
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank god Linux gives you multiple desktop options. I am happily using "Windows 98 style" XFCE. To be fair there probably hundreds of subtle improvements over Windows 98, but no horrendous game changers like when Ubuntu went from Gnome to Unity.

Cinnamon feels like XFCE's conceptual descendant, it doesnt break the desktop metaphor at all from win98/XFCE while having enough of the newer stuff if you want it. It was what I used until recently and would go back to in a heartbeat.

And it makes you want to double your ram just like the first time you got win95

Re: Users hate change

#150
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be an award of shame for this and I nominate Visio 2003.

Word for Dos 5.0. If you are old like me, you may remember thinking this was a pretty good word processor, and when Word 6.0 came out, it seemed a bloated mess in comparison. It's been downhill ever since. Mac OS X 10.6.8. It was good, and stable, and nothing that has come after has really added value to the product.

Funny because Word 6 is often praised as perfect balance. Or maybe I read wrong
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