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Users hate change

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Re: Users hate change

#131

Post by ryandrake »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #36
diggan wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is that every deployable version of the service should be usable on it's own and users should be able to chose exactly what version they are locked on to. Or they can choose to live on bleeding-edge and always get the latest updates. Wishful thinking maybe

I think some people around here, most especially the package-manager-uber-alles crowd and the security-for-the-security-god types [0], will be very upset you said this, but I agree. Why shouldn't I use software that works best for me, even if it isn't the latest and greatest version? Why shouldn't I be able to use multiple versions of the same software as though they were different products because they do different…

One of my pet peeves is that software always makes you take the good with the bad. You want the latest bug fixes and security updates, but you don’t want the added chat feature and UI redesign #12. But in order to get the former you also have to accept the latter. Companies should do a better job of maintaining old versions so you don’t have to take disruptive changes and feature cram just to patch a security hole.

Re: Users hate change

#132

Post by chadlavi »

that's an incredibly expensive and complex way to avoid some friction for some users. What about breaking changes to APIs? Do you end up with two completely separate backends and DBs to maintain as well? Do you just completely clone your entire product every time a big change happens -- and do you hire enough new people to handle that work?

Probably not, you probably just stretch existing engineers too far to maintain old stuff.

Seems better to only introduce breaking behavior changes when they're really necessary, and move the entire product to the new design. And if a new feature or a change in nav is enough to lose you customers, then your product might not be that compelling in the first place.

Re: Users hate change

#133

Post by msla »

holy_city wrote: post #125
ryandrake wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I’m totally against subscription software because I resent having to pay again and again for the same product just to be able to use it a month later. What ever happened to making a product, selling it once to the customer, who then gets to use it as they wish for as long as it works? Why does everything have to be a recurring revenue stream? Because you have software engineers who need something t…

Honestly? Because no software is free from bugs and there will always be a need for support. The difference between single sale and subscription can be life or death for a company, its products, and its support. But if you don't feel that a subscription to a service adds value, please don't buy it and voice your concern to the developers. Especially if they're a small shop. That said, subscriptions can be canceled. F…

> That said, subscriptions can be canceled.

Ideally. Assuming you haven't bought into a contract, and assuming the company... you know... stops charging you once you stop using their product and "cancel" using the mechanism they provide. That second problem can be mitigated with single-use credit cards, like what privacy.com offers, but if that gets to be too common, I can imagine companies requiring you not use those as a condition of service.

Re: Users hate change

#134

Post by gurkendoktor »

vbezhenar wrote: post #34
Finnucane wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word for Dos 5.0. If you are old like me, you may remember thinking this was a pretty good word processor, and when Word 6.0 came out, it seemed a bloated mess in comparison. It's been downhill ever since. Mac OS X 10.6.8. It was good, and stable, and nothing that has come after has really added value to the product.

iOS 6. I'm using latest iOS and the only useful feature for me is fingerprint recognition and that is more about hardware. They added tons of new features but I wouldn't miss any of those features.

Swipe to go back is one of the unexpected improvements in iOS 7 that I think many people would immediately miss when going back.

Re: Users hate change

#135

Post by grincho »

holy_city wrote: post #125
ryandrake wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I’m totally against subscription software because I resent having to pay again and again for the same product just to be able to use it a month later. What ever happened to making a product, selling it once to the customer, who then gets to use it as they wish for as long as it works? Why does everything have to be a recurring revenue stream? Because you have software engineers who need something t…

Honestly? Because no software is free from bugs and there will always be a need for support. The difference between single sale and subscription can be life or death for a company, its products, and its support. But if you don't feel that a subscription to a service adds value, please don't buy it and voice your concern to the developers. Especially if they're a small shop. That said, subscriptions can be canceled. F…

Then charge for bug fixes. Charge for updates that make the application run on a new version of the OS. If those things provide sufficient value, users will pay for them. I've been paying for that for decades for my commercial text editor.

And can subscriptions be canceled in practice? If you cancel your Photoshop subscription, your documents suddenly become unopenable. In this way, software subscriptions—at least for software you create with—are like protection money: "Nice documents there. It'd be a shame it anything were to happen to them."

Re: Users hate change

#136

Post by reitanqild »

snegu wrote: post #63
flohofwoe wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a solution of course. We need a revolutionary idea like the "subscription model for software", but for user happiness, maybe there's a middle way which doesn't end in poverty for the software developer ;) UX designers leaving their ivory towers to get an idea how the real world works would be a good start. Somehow we managed to turn the positive idea of an "update" into something most users are hating.

I assure you that UX designers (the real ones, at least) would love to get out of their ivory towers. In every job I have had, I have begged to get out and talk to users before doing anything else. However, that idea makes folks in charge nervous. It's expensive. It might reveal secrets(?). The users might get annoyed. One of the biggest issues is that time spent on research is time when the developers can't be devel…

I don't know.

IIRC UX people here on HN has told me Ribbon was a perfect example of UX design done right: they tested it on users and chose the easiest one.

Yet the first version of Ribbon released with the most important menus hidden behind the round logo in the upper left corner.

You are probably a good ux designer, but in general, modern ux designers cannot be trusted ;-)

Re: Users hate change

#137

Post by dataflow »

holy_city wrote: post #125
ryandrake wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I’m totally against subscription software because I resent having to pay again and again for the same product just to be able to use it a month later. What ever happened to making a product, selling it once to the customer, who then gets to use it as they wish for as long as it works? Why does everything have to be a recurring revenue stream? Because you have software engineers who need something t…

Honestly? Because no software is free from bugs and there will always be a need for support. The difference between single sale and subscription can be life or death for a company, its products, and its support. But if you don't feel that a subscription to a service adds value, please don't buy it and voice your concern to the developers. Especially if they're a small shop. That said, subscriptions can be canceled. F…

> The difference between single sale and subscription can be life or death for a company, its products, and its support.

Oh come on. Companies have been in business selling stuff for the longest time. It wasn't exactly wrecking capitalism before subscriptions became the normality in the last decade.

Re: Users hate change

#138

Post by Angostura »

lkrubner wrote: post #117
flohofwoe wrote: post #5

My pet theory is that every software product has a "peak version". Before that peak version, the product is not yet in a complete state, and it is fairly obvious, both for the developer and user, what features are missing. Once the peak version is reached, new features are not added because they improve the product, but to justify selling the product again to existing customers, and to 'keep the team busy'. Instead o…

Microsoft Word 5.1 on the Macintosh was published in 1992 and was generally seen as the best word processor ever invented. It's UI was perfect. It won a lot of praise in the press, all of it deserved. Sadly, after version 5.1, Microsoft began to focus on the integration of the Office Suite, which meant re-doing all the apps so that they'd be open to programming. And more features got added, and the UI became cluttere…

v.X was pretty nice when OS X came along. Since the, not many improvements.

Re: Users hate change

#139

Post by ryandrake »

svnpenn wrote: post #128
johnday wrote: post #33

It's interesting to compare the user responses to updates by Facebook and Twitter respectively. Facebook's UI has changed significantly over the last 15 or so years. Features have appeared and disappeared, boxes have been arranged and rearranged. But there's rarely a big fuss beyond it getting a little slower each time (roughly commensurate with consumer hardware speedup, in fact). People don't really notice and they…

I think a big part of it is tards like Mark Otto: https://github.com/mdo that make changes without regard of how useful or disruptive they are: https://twitter.com/mdo/status/830138373230653440

Wow, that Twitter thread was horrible. Users: “this UI change is terrible, please provide a way to opt out!” Designer: “You’re all wrong. I’m an artist and I say it’s better. Get over it!”

Literally the trashiest response a developer can have to honest end user feedback. All ego. May I never have to work with this guy.

Re: Users hate change

#140

Post by asark »

vbezhenar wrote: post #34
Finnucane wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word for Dos 5.0. If you are old like me, you may remember thinking this was a pretty good word processor, and when Word 6.0 came out, it seemed a bloated mess in comparison. It's been downhill ever since. Mac OS X 10.6.8. It was good, and stable, and nothing that has come after has really added value to the product.

iOS 6. I'm using latest iOS and the only useful feature for me is fingerprint recognition and that is more about hardware. They added tons of new features but I wouldn't miss any of those features.

They've added new features I like, but that was the sweet spot of discoverability and aesthetic. It's been downhill since. I'm also not loving making it a more general-purpose OS—the iPad/iPhone as a slab of metal & glass that could become any of several tools, with a no-BS operating system keeping it all coordinated, was what really made it special.
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