Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Users hate change

gist.github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 315 posts

Re: Users hate change

#61

Post by mikeash »

redbeard0x0a wrote: post #51
_nalply wrote: post #17

My wife has handicaps (deaf and cerebral palsy). She gets nervous and mistrustful if something has changed. She hates updates and asked me why the companies can't let the software alone. She has a point. Updates and nagging dialogs have a cost which is higher for non-IT people. Imagine your old neighbor being confused if he should allow that update or not and being stressed about because these update requests don't s…

The best analogy of finished software I have heard is this: > Software is done, like mowing the lawn is done. We live in an imperfect world, if we want to keep ourselves safe and prevent bad actors out of our data/technology. Updates are a part of the process. You don't mow your lawn once, it has to be maintained. Which is the same as software. This is something that we would be all better for if we could teach this…

The trouble is that software is rarely maintained in the same state. A landscaper will now your lawn. A programmer will replace the grass with rocks and snakes, tell you how much better it is this way, and get confused when you’re not happy.

Re: Users hate change

#62

Post by coupdejarnac »

redbeard0x0a wrote: post #51
_nalply wrote: post #17

My wife has handicaps (deaf and cerebral palsy). She gets nervous and mistrustful if something has changed. She hates updates and asked me why the companies can't let the software alone. She has a point. Updates and nagging dialogs have a cost which is higher for non-IT people. Imagine your old neighbor being confused if he should allow that update or not and being stressed about because these update requests don't s…

The best analogy of finished software I have heard is this: > Software is done, like mowing the lawn is done. We live in an imperfect world, if we want to keep ourselves safe and prevent bad actors out of our data/technology. Updates are a part of the process. You don't mow your lawn once, it has to be maintained. Which is the same as software. This is something that we would be all better for if we could teach this…

I do not buy this. You're equating security updates with UI changes. Pointless UI changes get a lot more frustrating as you get older. What we really need is software with really long support versions that minimize bullshit churn in UI and usability.

Re: Users hate change

#63

Post by snegu »

flohofwoe wrote: post #21
DougN7 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keeping bean counters shouldn’t be the goal, but everyone does like to keep eating. What do you suggest for keeping the business healthy while not making things terrible?

I don't have a solution of course. We need a revolutionary idea like the "subscription model for software", but for user happiness, maybe there's a middle way which doesn't end in poverty for the software developer ;) UX designers leaving their ivory towers to get an idea how the real world works would be a good start. Somehow we managed to turn the positive idea of an "update" into something most users are hating.

I assure you that UX designers (the real ones, at least) would love to get out of their ivory towers.

In every job I have had, I have begged to get out and talk to users before doing anything else. However, that idea makes folks in charge nervous. It's expensive. It might reveal secrets(?). The users might get annoyed.

One of the biggest issues is that time spent on research is time when the developers can't be developing. That seems to trump everything.

Re: Users hate change

#64

Post by UIZealot »

vbezhenar wrote: post #34
Finnucane wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word for Dos 5.0. If you are old like me, you may remember thinking this was a pretty good word processor, and when Word 6.0 came out, it seemed a bloated mess in comparison. It's been downhill ever since. Mac OS X 10.6.8. It was good, and stable, and nothing that has come after has really added value to the product.

iOS 6. I'm using latest iOS and the only useful feature for me is fingerprint recognition and that is more about hardware. They added tons of new features but I wouldn't miss any of those features.

Agree on iOS 6. For me it's not that the later versions don't offer good and useful features. It's just that I'm disgusted everytime I have to look at that god aweful UI. Jonny Ive truly has no taste.

Re: Users hate change

#65

Post by Causality1 »

I'll add to the OP that implementing new features isn't the only reason change happens. Many developers and marketers have a fetish for change for the sake of change. There have been many times when a product I use has undergone a redesign, except along with a visual redesign most of its features took twice as long to access. Information that was available with one click now required two or three.

Re: Users hate change

#66

Post by UIZealot »

Finnucane wrote: post #31
dade_ wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be an award of shame for this and I nominate Visio 2003.

Word for Dos 5.0. If you are old like me, you may remember thinking this was a pretty good word processor, and when Word 6.0 came out, it seemed a bloated mess in comparison. It's been downhill ever since. Mac OS X 10.6.8. It was good, and stable, and nothing that has come after has really added value to the product.

Agree on Snow Leopard. I don't even mind later versions not adding value. What's sad is, they added negative value. It got slower, buggier, and uglier with every update.

Re: Users hate change

#67

Post by yoz-y »

Finnucane wrote: post #31
dade_ wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be an award of shame for this and I nominate Visio 2003.

Word for Dos 5.0. If you are old like me, you may remember thinking this was a pretty good word processor, and when Word 6.0 came out, it seemed a bloated mess in comparison. It's been downhill ever since. Mac OS X 10.6.8. It was good, and stable, and nothing that has come after has really added value to the product.

> and nothing that has come after has really added value to the product

For you. Personally to me things like cross device copy-paste, airdrop, notes and reminders integrations are indispensable now. Metal has brought a huge improvement to rendering speed and of course security between now and then is incomparable.

Re: Users hate change

#69

Post by Crinus »

dade_ wrote: post #14
flohofwoe wrote: post #5

My pet theory is that every software product has a "peak version". Before that peak version, the product is not yet in a complete state, and it is fairly obvious, both for the developer and user, what features are missing. Once the peak version is reached, new features are not added because they improve the product, but to justify selling the product again to existing customers, and to 'keep the team busy'. Instead o…

There should be an award of shame for this and I nominate Visio 2003.

Since we're playing that game, i nominate Paint Shop Pro 7 :-)

There are very few (and minor) things i'd change about that software and apparently its developers thought the same because the biggest change they did after that was to change the program's theme (in general i think when a commercial program has ran out of important stuff to add the next thing they do is to change the program's theme :-P).

Also Delphi 2 and C++ Builder 1. I refer to the IDE there (they're essentially the same IDE except one uses Object Pascal and the other uses C++), not the language (as a language the ideal would be Delphi 7 with some functionality from Free Pascal like dynamic arrays and generics). The only thing i like from later versions is the inclusion of auto-completion, but beyond that (and especially after Delphi 7) there is way more bloat than good.

And MS Paint up until the Vista version. The only thing it needed was a tool to draw arrows. I curse the Win7+ MS Paint every time i want to draw overlapping rectangles or a rectangle and then something else.

Also WinHelp, whatever was the last version was fine. This didn't "fall from grace" as much as it was outright killed. CHM/HtmlHelp is nice (everything else that Microsoft has produced on the help front sucks) but the ability to add CSS and JavaScript on it means that many programs do add CSS and JavaScript (though TBF authoring WinHelp shows that it is a hacky hack of great hackiness, but i'm referring to the overall UX as a user, not author).

And of course WinAmp 2.95, i do not think this needs explanation :-P

Finally i think Visual C++ 6 (with the addon to add tabs) is the best VC++ version - again about the IDE, not the language. Though overall i prefer Borland's C++ (C++ Builder, Borland C++) mainly because the compilers are much faster (and i do not use C++ much to care about any missing features).

On the Linux side the last version of Xpdf to use Motif was the best Xpdf, GNOME2 is the best GNOME and Gtk2 is the best Gtk. Though Gtk itself is lousy, the only reason to use it is for GNOME.

Re: Users hate change

#70

Post by yoz-y »

flohofwoe wrote: post #5

My pet theory is that every software product has a "peak version". Before that peak version, the product is not yet in a complete state, and it is fairly obvious, both for the developer and user, what features are missing. Once the peak version is reached, new features are not added because they improve the product, but to justify selling the product again to existing customers, and to 'keep the team busy'. Instead o…

Subscription model is actually way better if you don't want to end up with feature bloat. Because you actually get money from users even if you only ever fix bugs and improve performance.

If you freeze your features you will soon arrive at a point where everybody who wanted your software bought it and then the revenue stops.

Post reply on HN