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In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

arstechnica.com

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Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#141

Post by Scoundreller »

tclancy wrote: post #93
ip26 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't water wells permitted? In that case, you simply require a meter, ideally the cellular or zigbee sort. I'm sure there would be water bandits but it doesn't seem totally impossible.

Hang on, you want me to pay the local government for water under my land that they don't treat or pump for me? You're going to have to adjust some property laws in the US (and at least England and Canada I would guess) to do that.

I thought surface rights and water rights were already unbundled in a lot of US states.

Rain barrels are/were illegal in a lot of US areas because you didn’t own the water that landed on your property.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#142

Post by jedberg »

LinuxBender wrote: post #79
Aaronstotle wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did a quick google search and found that Israel launched a large desalination plant back in 2015 (uses reverse osmosis). Here's the source: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/534996/megascale-desalina...

Thankyou. That would suggest it is feasible on a large scale. Hopefully more countries will start to invest in desalination plants. With ocean levels rising, now should be a good time to optimize that process even further.

Desal works fine, but uses a lot of energy. With ever cheaper solar panels, there will soon be a point where it makes sense to power a desal plant on just solar power.

But there is still the small matter of the salt that is left over. There is so much salt on this planet that no one wants it. You could dump it back in the ocean, but wherever you do so becomes too salty, which would be really bad if you dump it back right where you're doing your desalinization.

Which means we either need to ship it to the middle of the ocean (which maybe you can do with autonomous solar powered boats) or you need to figure out some other use for all that salt.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#143

Post by Johnny555 »

commandlinefan wrote: post #21
mjevans wrote: post #18

Lets stop wastefully watering lawns as a starting point. Some places are probably already doing that, but the use of native landscaping needs to spread further.

Don't forget - in a lot of places, you'll lose your home (to the HOA) if you _don't_ water your lawn.

Federal, State or local laws can avoid that problem. Like the law that prohibits HOA's from preventing you from installing a TV antenna.

https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#144

Post by Scoundreller »

Spooky23 wrote: post #126
ip26 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't water wells permitted? In that case, you simply require a meter, ideally the cellular or zigbee sort. I'm sure there would be water bandits but it doesn't seem totally impossible.

It's one of the applications for zoning in rural areas. My parents live in an area where there is no municipal water system. Due to the geology for both water supply and septic systems, they mandate a minimum lot size of 4 acres.

I can’t speculate too much without knowing where, but it sounds more like regulatory capture to prevent development.

With conservation, rainwater collection, gray water re-use, incinerating/composting toilets and/or engineered septic fields, a lot can be done without a lot of groundwater or usable natural septic field.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#145

Post by driverdan »

RandallBrown wrote: post #50
VBprogrammer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what cost? Desalination is not cheap in terms of the energy it uses or even the environmental cost of what to do with the left over brine. We can certainly be less wasteful at home. Flushing toilet waste with potable water and even to some extent using potable water to bath in are incredible wastes of a precious resource.

Israel gets like half of their drinking water from desalination. With solar/wind/nuclear/tidal energy, it could be very inexpensive.

It's still not inexpensive. Desalination plants cost hundreds of millions of dollars to build.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#146

Post by driverdan »

quotemstr wrote: post #25
mjevans wrote: post #18

Lets stop wastefully watering lawns as a starting point. Some places are probably already doing that, but the use of native landscaping needs to spread further.

I like lawns. So do lots of other people. It's okay to expend resources on things that aren't bare essentials. The price mechanism, not social control, is what allows for efficient allocation of scarce resources. Let people who want to pay for the water water their lawns.

You're right but water is not priced properly. Everything above the minimum requirement to survive should be at least 10x more expensive.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#147

Post by rabidrat »

ajross wrote: post #106

Unpopular (or at least unconventional) opinion: depleted aquifers are a good thing, because it's turns one of the externalities of outrageously exploited agriculture into a true cost. More expensive food means less land use and less energy spent irrigating what we do grow. (I felt the same way about "peak oil" 20 years ago, but alas fracking messed that guess up.)

That's the issue, I've found, with hoping that calamity will make the problems visible enough to shock us into making systemic changes. Humans are very good at inventing clever short-term "solutions" that ameliorate the symptoms but wind up making the long-term problem worse. I have no doubt that if/when global civilization fails due to global warming, we'll wind up burning everything in sight to power our air conditioners for a few minutes of respite.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#148

Post by Scoundreller »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #127
lostapathy wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does flushing my toilet from water drawn from a river ... and then pumped back into the same river slightly downstream hurt anything?

That water is cleaned to within an inch of its life. Pumped for miles and then treated before being returned to the river. The same goes for the gallons of water which is used for showering. Grey water could easily be reused for flushing or watering plants.

Technically easy, but economically terrible if you bother with the permits, sign-offs and buying an approved system when you effectively can’t DIY.

I’m waiting for WalMart or Amazon to sell an elegant $500 incinerating toilet and $500 gray water system that’s approved and just needs pipe/power connections.

We have the tech to run homes without any sewer connections.

Solutions right now seem to be priced/targeted at situations where buyers have no choice.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#149

Post by Scoundreller »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #91
toomuchtodo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of water use is agriculture. Skimping in your home doesn't change that.

To be honest I suspected that and was going to say something about it but then I tried to verify my suspicion and couldn't immediately find a reference for it. From what I did see about 50% of domestic use is watering plants. Getting rid of conventional lawns would be a good start.

Depends how you do it. My mom’s backyard is going from useless lawn to cares-for fruit/veg garden.

Water consumption is going up. Dunno if our practices use less than buying what we produce.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#150

Post by Spooky23 »

Scoundreller wrote: post #144
Spooky23 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of the applications for zoning in rural areas. My parents live in an area where there is no municipal water system. Due to the geology for both water supply and septic systems, they mandate a minimum lot size of 4 acres.

I can’t speculate too much without knowing where, but it sounds more like regulatory capture to prevent development. With conservation, rainwater collection, gray water re-use, incinerating/composting toilets and/or engineered septic fields, a lot can be done without a lot of groundwater or usable natural septic field.

It’s in the middle of nowhere. My neighbor was the mayor who implemented it, with the goal of encouraging development.
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