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Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

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Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#161

Post by user5994461 »

starbugs wrote: post #125
eropple wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No electricity for six hours a day" at an individual/consumer level is not the solution and obviously never will be even if the math lined up. Think economically, not individually. Commuting is normal but it is not necessary. Suburban and rural living at consistent standards of living (necessarily higher-consumption factors due to diseconomies of scale) are not necessary. You're right in that people won't do it, but…

This discussion reflects an additional problem. There is no agreement about the solution. Try selling people a problem without a solution. Good luck!

There are plenty of solutions, but none that people would willingly participate in. If you can't think of something, ask Thanos ;)

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#162

Post by DuskStar »

justin66 wrote: post #153
DuskStar wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If climate change was happening and a massive problem, we would be morally obligated to advocate for the most effective methods of prevention - no matter their side effects. Nuclear, geoengineering, a carbon tax, making sure that Africa never industrializes - everything would be on the table. Since we don't like those solutions, climate change must not be that large of a problem." They aren't as bad as the Republica…

> If the Green New Deal is what they'd actually attempt to do, we're fucked. No, we'd be making progress toward eliminating the growth of CO2 in the atmosphere, but making it slower than if they'd also embrace nuclear power. > making sure that Africa never industrializes Is that even part of the public debate? I mean, outside of Ron Paul's newsletters or something equally crazy?

> No, we'd be making progress toward eliminating the growth of CO2 in the atmosphere, but making it slower than if they'd also embrace nuclear power.

Ehhhh... We might be making progress on eliminating the growth of CO2 in the atmosphere from the US, but that's a rather different statement. Unless you can get everyone else to agree to emissions restrictions far more restrictive than the Paris Agreement, we'd be worse off than before. (yes, this is a tragedy of the commons problem)

This is part of why I mentioned geoengineering as an option, because unlike with emissions reductions geoengineering may actually be sufficient to prevent climate change without the cooperation of the rest of the world.

> > making sure that Africa never industrializes

> Is that even part of the public debate? I mean, outside of Ron Paul's newsletters or something equally crazy?

Perhaps not to ensure it never industrializes, but a refusal to limit the emissions growth of the third world soon is part of why the Paris Agreement was insufficient. (How to get the third world to agree to this is, of course, a wee bit of a problem)

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#163

Post by erdewit »

criddell wrote: post #128
laobagua wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of ironic that when the Earth gets hot we turn on more devices that heat up the Earth (via CO2 emissions). I don't have AC at home in the Bay Area -- when it gets hot I just go to a public air-conditioned space for the day.

It's part of the reason I think rooftop solar panels are an interesting idea. They generate power at exactly the time when it's needed for cooling.

When it's so hot like now, the efficiency of solar panels goes down and they produce about 20% less.

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#164

Post by mettamage »

floatrock wrote: post #54
mettamage wrote: post #35

Pro tip for people who do not have airconditioning in their houses: 1. Go to universities 2. Go to co-working spaces Go to any place to flee the heat. I'm at my university right now, and I'm not even noticing it's as hot as it is since the airconditioning is doing an amazing job here.

I know you're in triage mode helping the immediately-affected get safe, but given the climate change undercurrents of all this, a statement like > I'm not even noticing it's as hot as it is since the airconditioning is doing an amazing job here. ...just leaves a frustrating and poor taste. What's powering all that air conditioning? It's not free. Get safe now, but don't lose sight that it's all inter-related.

Fair point, but like a sibling comment already stated: I cannot convince my uni to stop using AC in the short-term. So then better use it.

The climate change issue in the long-term is gripping me. What are we — as mostly programmers — doing about it. Why isn’t FAANG doing something? For pure problem solvers this seems like a juicy problem to sink your teeth into.

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#165

Post by bad_user »

geddy wrote: post #136
bad_user wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as we keep shoveling meat into our faces 5x per day Right, because that's your biggest problem. It couldn't be the fossil fuels used for transportation (29%) or the industry that produces the goods and the raw materials like cement (22%), the production of electricity (28%), or even the commercial and residential emissions (12%). Oh no, our biggest problem has to be agriculture (9%). And let's not talk abou…

Yes, meat and meat eaters are a very big problem here. Not the only one as you pointed out, but look at is this way: - Industrial regulations will take years if not forever to be reformed to offset the damage in that sector. You also have big money in keeping things "business as usual", so good luck with that. Things need to be made. - Transportation: it will take years to get all the gasoline-fueled vehicles off the…

> you, the people next to you, _everyone_ can immediately decide this very second to do their part

Or, with all due respect, I can tell you to fuck off.

My problem with environmental movements is people basically bring their own beliefs and agendas in, with no support from science and then rub it in other people's faces, trying to turn their religion into policy.

We could have a chat about how most vegans are deficient in certain vitamins and proteins, making the vegan diet, in fact, more challenging than any other diet. We could also talk about how animals and plants could be raised sustainably. But there would be no point to it because your mind is already set.

And it's incredibly frustrating to see the minds of Silicon Valley invest in fake meat instead of solving problems that actually matter, but that's not new.

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#166

Post by mempko »

DuskStar wrote: post #151
mempko wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deniers have already switched from "It's not happening" to "It's happening but not man made". I'm seeing some already switch to "It's is man made, but it's a good thing! look, the world is getting greener!". I was going to say "It's an endless fight", but it isn't true. The fight will end when we all die. The horrors that are coming are unspeakable. During the famines in Russia during the civil-war starving mothers a…

> Famine is our future. In the USA, we are already locking up climate refugees, many children, in cages. Funnily enough, I think this would actually be justified if climate change was going to cause imminent famine as you're suggesting. Given the choice between having the population of the US undergo a mild famine while to the south there's a famine beyond living memory (thanks to preventing climate-motivated migrati…

> Famine, when it comes, will affect the rest of the world far more than it will the US, Canada, and Russia.

USA has had the biggest impact on climate in the last 100 years and is responsible for the bulk of climate emissions. In other words, the rest of the world will starve because of us and somehow we can justify building walls to protect ourselves. If there is a thing as "evil" it most certainly is that.

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#167

Post by starbugs »

user5994461 wrote: post #161
starbugs wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This discussion reflects an additional problem. There is no agreement about the solution. Try selling people a problem without a solution. Good luck!

There are plenty of solutions, but none that people would willingly participate in. If you can't think of something, ask Thanos ;)

So there are — effectively — none.

And even the hypothetical solutions nobody wants to commit to are being disputed in the style you can witness above.

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#168

Post by kiliantics »

criddell wrote: post #48
gilbetron wrote: post #10

Not only broke it, destroyed it: +2.2C (+4.0F). That's incredible, in a terrifying, "well, I guess this is going to happen" kind of way.

If every disaster contains opportunities, what are they here? The obvious thing would be investing in green technology, but what else? Are HVAC equipment producers about to see a big uptick in sales?

My hope is that this is taken as an opportunity to change the logic of our society's organisation away from endless growth and to end the calous, brutal exploitation of people and resources for the singular goal of profit.

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#169

Post by mempko »

mindslight wrote: post #156
mempko wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important because it frames what is happening now in a proper context. For example, in the USA, we are caging climate refugees, many children, in concentration camps. The media doesn't call them climate refugees, but that's what they are. If you understand this, then you understand the problem of people wanting to come is only going to get worse, and it's a moral imperative we let them come. It's also important…

Without a sense of action, that "proper context" just causes more mental anguish. I'm obviously writing from a place of accepting climate change - I'm just describing why denying it is so attractive. Lifestyle choices are intrinsically a social game - your ignorant climate change denier is likely very concerned about some different issue, and can't understand why you're ignoring it. There are so many problems, it's i…

I don't think denial is apathy or a response to dealing with other problems. Denial is a product of a massive disinformation campaign. There is a reason the rest of the world (in places with worse problems than in USA) doesn't have the same level of denial.

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#170

Post by mindslight »

mempko wrote: post #169
mindslight wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without a sense of action, that "proper context" just causes more mental anguish. I'm obviously writing from a place of accepting climate change - I'm just describing why denying it is so attractive. Lifestyle choices are intrinsically a social game - your ignorant climate change denier is likely very concerned about some different issue, and can't understand why you're ignoring it. There are so many problems, it's i…

I don't think denial is apathy or a response to dealing with other problems. Denial is a product of a massive disinformation campaign. There is a reason the rest of the world (in places with worse problems than in USA) doesn't have the same level of denial.

If it is simply a disinformation campaign, then why hasn't that disinformation campaign been waged more equally across different countries? Even if the US is one of the largest markets to maintain, surely there would also be great value in eroding the European consensus.

I'd argue that the overriding moderator is culture, with global warming being much more inconvenient for the car-based consumption treadmill.

> There is a reason the rest of the world (in places with worse problems than in USA)

It's not about real problems that people directly struggle with, but rather political "problems" that mass media turns into a divisive frenzy.

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