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Tulsi Gabbard Sues Google for Suspending Ad Account

nytimes.com

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard Sues Google for Suspending Ad Account

#21

Post by belltaco »

cwkoss wrote: post #17
slg wrote: post #9

It might be more appropriate to link to a indepdent article about this rather than Gabbard's site. Here is one from The Verge [1]. It sounds like Google's fraud/spam algorithms automatically triggered the suspension (maybe due to a large increase in spend meant to build on Gabbard's post debate momentum). The account was unlocked after human intervention. Gabbard insinuates the initial suspension was politically moti…

> Gabbard insinuates the initial suspension was politically motivated The subtext I'm reading is that the "major" political accounts probably have specific flags set by Google internally to prevent automated shut-offs like this. If Google is not applying these whitelist flags to all candidates in a fair and systematic fashion, it would effectively be utilizing their corporate resources to disproportionately benefit c…

>it would effectively be utilizing their corporate resources to disproportionately benefit certain candidates at the expense of others

Which is still not illegal.

Fox News does it all the time.

Re: Tulsi Gabbard Sues Google for Suspending Ad Account

#22

Post by anm89 »

This brings up the inherent absurdity of wanting tech infrastructure providers to sensor their platforms.

When the mob decides that they don't like a thing then it's "why were they allowed a platform".

Whereas when the mob wants access to a thing and then it's restricted it's "why were they allowed to capriciously control my access"

It's an inherently unwinnable game. Tech companies who are essentially an information utility at this point controlling huge flows of content should not be made judge jury and executioner on what is acceptable speech.

It's bizarre to me that people who on one hand seem to hate these companies also want to give them immense power and responsibility to restrict access to information. It's because they associate the idea of censorship with getting the specific thing they want censored and not with a broader world in which these companies hold this power.

Not a huge fan of Joe Rogan but Naval Ravikant expresses this very lucidly on the podcast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNWN5ioF-9A&feature=youtu.be...

Re: Tulsi Gabbard Sues Google for Suspending Ad Account

#23

Post by taytus »

slg wrote: post #9

It might be more appropriate to link to a indepdent article about this rather than Gabbard's site. Here is one from The Verge [1]. It sounds like Google's fraud/spam algorithms automatically triggered the suspension (maybe due to a large increase in spend meant to build on Gabbard's post debate momentum). The account was unlocked after human intervention. Gabbard insinuates the initial suspension was politically moti…

>Gabbard insinuates the initial suspension was politically motivated, which seems hard to believe.

I'm not saying that she is right but it's not hard to believe at all.

Re: Tulsi Gabbard Sues Google for Suspending Ad Account

#24

Post by writepub »

Of all the trending searches after the debate, Google's systems singling out Tulsi's account for flagging seems suspicious, and Google's robo-responses to press inquiries specious. I'm sure other candidates upped their spending, so let's have the ACTUAL numbers Google!

Also, it's a little surprising to see parroted defenses of Google here - they operate behind an opaque cloak, designed from the ground up for plausible deniability on every single one of their actions. Their P.R. statements cannot be believed. Tulsi's criticisms do not seem unsubstantiated, and the fact she's suing a corp. with unlimited funding indicates her campaign believes they have some evidence of malice. Between the two, I'd give Tulsi the benefit of doubt, and wait for the discovery stage in this case

Re: Tulsi Gabbard Sues Google for Suspending Ad Account

#25

Post by nameismypw »

> The lawsuit accuses Google of violating the First Amendment, among other offenses, and Gabbard is seeking $50 million plus assurances that Google will refrain from “censoring or restricting” the account.

Isn't it common rhetoric that Google _can't_ violate the First Amendment, being a private company? They have the ability to arbitrarily close or censor any account they choose. Politicians don't get special treatment, especially while saying it's fair for Google to close accounts belonging to people whom they personally find objectionable.

Re: Tulsi Gabbard Sues Google for Suspending Ad Account

#27

Post by natalyarostova »

anm89 wrote: post #22

This brings up the inherent absurdity of wanting tech infrastructure providers to sensor their platforms. When the mob decides that they don't like a thing then it's "why were they allowed a platform". Whereas when the mob wants access to a thing and then it's restricted it's "why were they allowed to capriciously control my access" It's an inherently unwinnable game. Tech companies who are essentially an information…

This is why the corner solution of free speech as a cultural meme was started, which was a precursor to its formalization.

The corner solution essentially 'solves' this issue by realizing partial censorship is a non-stable equilibrium.

Re: Tulsi Gabbard Sues Google for Suspending Ad Account

#28

Post by Causality1 »

gringoDan wrote: post #10

NYT article that has more information: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/technology/tulsi-gabbard-... The account was inactive from 9:30pm on June 27th - 3:30am on June 28th. This doesn't seem like an act of malice from Google, but rather a verification check. Some excerpts: > Tulsi Now Inc., the campaign committee for Ms. Gabbard, said Google suspended the campaign’s advertising account for six hours on June 27 and…

Now now, we can't let facts get in the way of the victimhood Olympics.

Re: Tulsi Gabbard Sues Google for Suspending Ad Account

#29

Post by slg »

dvt wrote: post #16
slg wrote: post #9

It might be more appropriate to link to a indepdent article about this rather than Gabbard's site. Here is one from The Verge [1]. It sounds like Google's fraud/spam algorithms automatically triggered the suspension (maybe due to a large increase in spend meant to build on Gabbard's post debate momentum). The account was unlocked after human intervention. Gabbard insinuates the initial suspension was politically moti…

I was considering linking the NYT article[1] but consciously decided against it. I don't even particularly support Tulsi Gabbard, but I'd rather go to the horse's mouth, so to speak, and let people make up their own minds. Also, her blog has no intrusive ads or paywalls. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/technology/tulsi-gabbard-...

That is a fair viewpoint. I am just a little cautious of only hearing one side of a lawsuit, especially when that side is a political campaign and therefore is very concerned with spin. Gabbard's account has a lot of political grandstanding in it that you wouldn't find in a independent article.

Re: Tulsi Gabbard Sues Google for Suspending Ad Account

#30

Post by shadowmore »

On a first principles level, this highlights the core issue of bans/blocks/suspensions being handed out immediately rather than after a series of strike-based warning messages or something to that effect.

YouTube creators come to mind as some of the most blatantly affected by this, i.e. when YouTube automatically demonetizes videos, losing the creator revenue from 75%+ of the video's viewers, and then remonetizes it after an appeal.

At no point should any algorithm have the ability to block any account or perform any other such drastic measure (demonetization, etc.). It's just absurd.

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