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In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

arstechnica.com

91–100 of 185 posts

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what cost? Desalination is not cheap in terms of the energy it uses or even the environmental cost of what to do with the left over brine. We can certainly be less wasteful at home. Flushing toilet waste with potable water and even to some extent using potable water to bath in are incredible wastes of a precious resource.

The vast majority of water use is agriculture. Skimping in your home doesn't change that.

To be honest I suspected that and was going to say something about it but then I tried to verify my suspicion and couldn't immediately find a reference for it.

From what I did see about 50% of domestic use is watering plants. Getting rid of conventional lawns would be a good start.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#92

For those interested in exploring the political and social consequences of this in a near-term (albeit fictional) world, I highly recommend reading "The Water Knife" by Paolo Bacigalupi. From the Goodreads description: > In the American Southwest, Nevada, Arizona, and California skirmish for dwindling shares of the Colorado River. Into the fray steps Angel Velasquez, leg-breaker, assassin, and spy. A Las Vegas water…

Or just read about Syria and Turkey.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#93
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people outside of cities have their own groundwater wells, which is at least part of what the article is talking about. How do you price water people are pulling directly from the ground with their own equipment?

Aren't water wells permitted? In that case, you simply require a meter, ideally the cellular or zigbee sort. I'm sure there would be water bandits but it doesn't seem totally impossible.

Hang on, you want me to pay the local government for water under my land that they don't treat or pump for me? You're going to have to adjust some property laws in the US (and at least England and Canada I would guess) to do that.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#94
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how much of that is irrigated? As I understand it in California there is a lot of irrigated lawns. But I doubt the majority of lawns in the US is irrigated or watered.

Do you own a lawn? Scotland is perhaps the only place I know where you can not water lawn in summer.

New England here, haven't ever watered the lawn

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#95
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, although for that to work water needs to be priced differently from today.

Okay. So let's do that. Let's let the price of water reflect its scarcity. Appropriate conservation measures will follow automatically without some central bureaucracy having to make uniform rules that are necessarily poor fits for individual preferences and circumstances.

> Let's let the price of water reflect its scarcity.

You say that like it's the easy solution. It'd have to be regulated on a federal level. Good luck getting that to pass, well, anywhere. With the way humans discount future consequences, and the amount of money companies can use to lobby or bribe politicians, it's going to be way too late when it'll become politically feasible to do in many places.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. So let's do that. Let's let the price of water reflect its scarcity. Appropriate conservation measures will follow automatically without some central bureaucracy having to make uniform rules that are necessarily poor fits for individual preferences and circumstances.

> Let's let the price of water reflect its scarcity. You say that like it's the easy solution. It'd have to be regulated on a federal level. Good luck getting that to pass, well, anywhere. With the way humans discount future consequences, and the amount of money companies can use to lobby or bribe politicians, it's going to be way too late when it'll become politically feasible to do in many places.

Why would it require legislation? Scarcity will drive up price automatically.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual water resources researcher focusing on climate change here. My job is focused on what can we do to continue to deliver water to society under future scenarios (and what steps we can take to get there) from policy to infrastructure investments. The article doesn't present anything new for us but the problem is that the general public isn't informed. While we're the oldest engineering discipline, remember that e…

Why are so many water researchers opposed to letting the price of water vary and drive market-based conservation?

Great question! There's really no simple answer to this unfortunately also I don't think I'm the best person to answer this question, but I'll try my best!

Water is a basic human right. In most countries, water is a public good that the government subsidizes and, to some extent, the market is adjusted to allow vulnerable households to afford the resource as well. If we have a 100% free market-based solution then in many locations the poor and underprivileged have a considerably less access to this vital resource (some won't get any). An example of this can be seen in India. Many districts there suffer from intermittent water supply (where the local piped water comes at irregular intervals instead of continuously). These people might not be able to shower regularly and they aren't given a schedule of when the water will come, so they can't schedule their day or week. Many of these people might even have to leave work for a day (losing that income and economic productivity) and jump out to fill up their water tanks in their homes. As they don't know when the water comes (no regular scheduling), this uncertainty can be nerve racking and (even if you're trying to stretch it out to last) may not be enough to last your family until the next "supply". In these cases, you call in a water tanker to refill your tank but even then you don't know if it'll come.

On the tanker truck company's side, they don't want irregular domestic clients, they want more regular commercial clients (because the total customer value is much higher, you get more money from those clients than a household that needs a one-offer). So those companies aren't really incentivized to service residential clients. So if another call comes in, those commercial clients would take higher priority than those vulnerable households.

Those solutions don't really help this problem, and this problem is just going to grow for the foreseeable future. Not exactly what I'm talking about, but IWA recently published an article about how many cities are shifting from 24/7 to intermittent water supply solutions [0], and if this becomes irregular and the system starts to fail, then this will just keep that problem growing. One of the projects I'm involved in works on trying to solve this exact problem and we recently got some support from the US National Science Foundation as well as the Gates Foundation. However, there's still a long way to go. (Sidebar: Anyone want to give us more funding or help? Send me a message!)

[0]: https://iwa-network.org/running-out-of-water-cities-shifting...

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#98
It hasn't "vanished", it is just hiding in the ocean and the atmosphere. Same as the (vanished) water at the icecaps.

As the Earth heats, the water evaporates. When that happens it adds to heat retention. Expect the water to make a bold reappearance as we experience tropical storms.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#99
post #89
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interestingly, farmers view water usage as a trade secret I wonder why. Do slight changes in irrigation patterns have a significant effect on crops?

Water usage combined with weather information likely gives competitive advantage is futures markets.

I'm sure it could but why would the farmers care about the futures market, unless they are using futures to hedge against their own crops?

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's let the price of water reflect its scarcity. You say that like it's the easy solution. It'd have to be regulated on a federal level. Good luck getting that to pass, well, anywhere. With the way humans discount future consequences, and the amount of money companies can use to lobby or bribe politicians, it's going to be way too late when it'll become politically feasible to do in many places.

Why would it require legislation? Scarcity will drive up price automatically.

The market is very good at ignoring or hiding scarcity or other externalities until the damage is done. Nothing is "automatic" about it. The "free market" doesn't exist in a way that would allow the price to organically reflect water's actual scarcity.
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