In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes • Hacker News Board

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#61

Post by not_a_cop75 » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:21 PM UTC

ip26 wrote: post #54

r00fus wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does market economics work if there's no way to prevent the tragedy of the commons?

That's a confusing question. The tragedy of the commons happens specifically when a resource is under- or un-priced.

It's not a confusing question. The tragedy of the commons happens when a company or person abuses a resource that is provided for the good of all. We can look at any company and realize that compared to an average individual the pollution and resource consumption is crazy.

The problem with industry is that everything is value added but nobody looks at externalities sufficiently or value subtracted.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#62

Post by lostlogin » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

chewz wrote: post #49

neonhomer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how much of that is irrigated? As I understand it in California there is a lot of irrigated lawns. But I doubt the majority of lawns in the US is irrigated or watered.

Do you own a lawn? Scotland is perhaps the only place I know where you can not water lawn in summer.

Those in New Zealand can avoid watering, particularly if the lawn is kikuyu. It is a complete pain to maintain though as it grows very fast when it’s warm, wet and sunny. It makes you itchy is you lie on it too.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#63

Post by ccffph » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:25 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #21

mjevans wrote: post #18

Lets stop wastefully watering lawns as a starting point. Some places are probably already doing that, but the use of native landscaping needs to spread further.

Don't forget - in a lot of places, you'll lose your home (to the HOA) if you _don't_ water your lawn.

well then why did you move in there, lol

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#64

Post by quotemstr » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:25 PM UTC

ip26 wrote: post #56

quotemstr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like lawns. So do lots of other people. It's okay to expend resources on things that aren't bare essentials. The price mechanism, not social control, is what allows for efficient allocation of scarce resources. Let people who want to pay for the water water their lawns.

Yes, although for that to work water needs to be priced differently from today.

Okay. So let's do that. Let's let the price of water reflect its scarcity. Appropriate conservation measures will follow automatically without some central bureaucracy having to make uniform rules that are necessarily poor fits for individual preferences and circumstances.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#65

Post by ricardobeat » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:29 PM UTC

ip26 wrote: post #55

Amezarak wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people outside of cities have their own groundwater wells, which is at least part of what the article is talking about. How do you price water people are pulling directly from the ground with their own equipment?

Aren't water wells permitted? In that case, you simply require a meter, ideally the cellular or zigbee sort. I'm sure there would be water bandits but it doesn't seem totally impossible.

Or simply charge more for the license itself.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#66

Post by stirfrykitty » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:30 PM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #57

stirfrykitty wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet companies build plants on the Great Lakes, hoover up all the water, filter it, bottle it, and sell it to the unsuspecting, who happily buy it. I never ever saw bottled water as a kid in Europe. It wasn't until I moved to the US where it appeared to be commonplace. When I went back home to England last year, they've got it in every supermarket I visited. Sad, really. I still just drink out of the tap here in Texas…

Depends on where exactly you live. Much of the US cities have great tap water. Some places (Flint) get lead going on. However, much of the water in the US by area is well water. Well water tastes gross, and has some dubious health effects if not filtered right. Bottled water seems reasonable for those people. Just because bottled water is not useful for you, does not mean it's not useful for anyone.

I never said it wasn't useful. Obviously there are people who need it. I just won't pay for it when I already do by paying for house water. Our tap water is clean here in Texas.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#67

Post by dsfyu404ed » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:30 PM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #27

srameshc wrote: post #14

The same phenomenon is happening is happening in China & India and probably many other parts of he world as well. As we become more a more affluent society, our on water consumption increases. We need to raise awareness at a global level about preserving and saving water. https://www.theatlantic.com/china/archive/2013/04/28-000-riv... https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/photos/rivers...

Why not just price water to reflect supply realities? Why would anyone care about saving water when it's so dirt cheap? "Awareness" seems like a waste of time in comparison.

Because we as a society have decided that we are all better off if it's cheap enough that poor people can still use it on a whim. Of course this results in some people over-using but we think that's less of a problem.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#68

Post by ricardobeat » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:31 PM UTC

RandallBrown wrote: post #50

VBprogrammer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what cost? Desalination is not cheap in terms of the energy it uses or even the environmental cost of what to do with the left over brine. We can certainly be less wasteful at home. Flushing toilet waste with potable water and even to some extent using potable water to bath in are incredible wastes of a precious resource.

Israel gets like half of their drinking water from desalination. With solar/wind/nuclear/tidal energy, it could be very inexpensive.

Handling the massive amounts of brine resulting from desalination could end up costing a lot. They’re already having issues with it.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#69

Post by dsfyu404ed » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:31 PM UTC

ip26 wrote: post #55

Amezarak wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people outside of cities have their own groundwater wells, which is at least part of what the article is talking about. How do you price water people are pulling directly from the ground with their own equipment?

Aren't water wells permitted? In that case, you simply require a meter, ideally the cellular or zigbee sort. I'm sure there would be water bandits but it doesn't seem totally impossible.

I assure you that you will have a very difficult time enforcing permit rules anywhere that is not dense enough to have town water.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#70

Post by rootusrootus » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

chewz wrote: post #49

neonhomer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how much of that is irrigated? As I understand it in California there is a lot of irrigated lawns. But I doubt the majority of lawns in the US is irrigated or watered.

Do you own a lawn? Scotland is perhaps the only place I know where you can not water lawn in summer.

A lot of people (at least in the PNW) just let their lawn go dormant in the summer rather than water it. Since we'd be using city water in most places, it is expensive to dump that on grass.