In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes • Hacker News Board

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#31

Post by quotemstr » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

halfeatenpie wrote: post #22

romaaeterna wrote: post #5

If this were actually a serious issue, we would be discussing NAWPA again for real. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Water_and_Power... The original blueprint used nukes to dig the trenches, but conventional explosives work just fine.

Actual water resources researcher focusing on climate change here. My job is focused on what can we do to continue to deliver water to society under future scenarios (and what steps we can take to get there) from policy to infrastructure investments. The article doesn't present anything new for us but the problem is that the general public isn't informed. While we're the oldest engineering discipline, remember that e…

Why are so many water researchers opposed to letting the price of water vary and drive market-based conservation?

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#32

Post by panzagl » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #21

mjevans wrote: post #18

Lets stop wastefully watering lawns as a starting point. Some places are probably already doing that, but the use of native landscaping needs to spread further.

Don't forget - in a lot of places, you'll lose your home (to the HOA) if you _don't_ water your lawn.

In order to buy that home you signed a contract saying you would maintain your lawn. If you don't want to water there are other alternatives.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#33

Post by jcmeyrignac » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #18

Lets stop wastefully watering lawns as a starting point. Some places are probably already doing that, but the use of native landscaping needs to spread further.

I believe the amount of water used for lawns is an order of magnitude smaller than the water used for fracking. The water for fracking is definitely lost, while the water we use even for bathing is recycled infinitely.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#34

Post by hyperbovine » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

et-al wrote: post #23

cardamomo wrote: post #11

For those interested in exploring the political and social consequences of this in a near-term (albeit fictional) world, I highly recommend reading "The Water Knife" by Paolo Bacigalupi. From the Goodreads description: > In the American Southwest, Nevada, Arizona, and California skirmish for dwindling shares of the Colorado River. Into the fray steps Angel Velasquez, leg-breaker, assassin, and spy. A Las Vegas water…

And if anyone prefers non-fiction, Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner describes the (completely fucked) water supply situation out in California.

One of my all-time favorite non-fiction books, perhaps even more topical today than it was when it came out in 1986. It's a shame that the author died in 2000 at the young age of 51; the book deserves a sequel or two.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#35

Post by wrong_variable » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 5:46 PM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #27

srameshc wrote: post #14

The same phenomenon is happening is happening in China & India and probably many other parts of he world as well. As we become more a more affluent society, our on water consumption increases. We need to raise awareness at a global level about preserving and saving water. https://www.theatlantic.com/china/archive/2013/04/28-000-riv... https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/photos/rivers...

Why not just price water to reflect supply realities? Why would anyone care about saving water when it's so dirt cheap? "Awareness" seems like a waste of time in comparison.

Being able to "price" something requires existence of a functional market.

Markets can only exist when contracts can be enforced.

Being able to enforce a contract requires monitoring and ability to issue fines, you also needs appropriate laws.

All of the above does not exist when it comes to ground water harvesting - especially in India and even in a police state like China.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#36

Post by chewz » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #25

mjevans wrote: post #18

Lets stop wastefully watering lawns as a starting point. Some places are probably already doing that, but the use of native landscaping needs to spread further.

I like lawns. So do lots of other people. It's okay to expend resources on things that aren't bare essentials. The price mechanism, not social control, is what allows for efficient allocation of scarce resources. Let people who want to pay for the water water their lawns.

> Lawns in US take 41 million acres. That figure makes lawn the most widespread plant under irrigation in the contiguous US.

https://healthylandethic.com/2013/11/17/why-prairies-matter-...

Pretty wasteful use of limited resource - water.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#37

Post by r00fus » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 5:48 PM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #27

srameshc wrote: post #14

The same phenomenon is happening is happening in China & India and probably many other parts of he world as well. As we become more a more affluent society, our on water consumption increases. We need to raise awareness at a global level about preserving and saving water. https://www.theatlantic.com/china/archive/2013/04/28-000-riv... https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/photos/rivers...

Why not just price water to reflect supply realities? Why would anyone care about saving water when it's so dirt cheap? "Awareness" seems like a waste of time in comparison.

Does market economics work if there's no way to prevent the tragedy of the commons?

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#38

Post by dbt00 » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 5:48 PM UTC

VBprogrammer wrote: post #19

quotemstr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, and build lots of desalination plants. We can engineer our way out of this problem without compromising our quality of life.

At what cost? Desalination is not cheap in terms of the energy it uses or even the environmental cost of what to do with the left over brine. We can certainly be less wasteful at home. Flushing toilet waste with potable water and even to some extent using potable water to bath in are incredible wastes of a precious resource.

They’re trivial wastes of a precious resource. Toilet flushing isn’t a significant consumer of potable water, and retrofitting multiple municipal water lines is expensive for the benefit.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#39

Post by Amezarak » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 5:50 PM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #27

srameshc wrote: post #14

The same phenomenon is happening is happening in China & India and probably many other parts of he world as well. As we become more a more affluent society, our on water consumption increases. We need to raise awareness at a global level about preserving and saving water. https://www.theatlantic.com/china/archive/2013/04/28-000-riv... https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/photos/rivers...

Why not just price water to reflect supply realities? Why would anyone care about saving water when it's so dirt cheap? "Awareness" seems like a waste of time in comparison.

A lot of people outside of cities have their own groundwater wells, which is at least part of what the article is talking about. How do you price water people are pulling directly from the ground with their own equipment?

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#40

Post by stirfrykitty » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

wrong_variable wrote: post #35

hombre_fatal wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just price water to reflect supply realities? Why would anyone care about saving water when it's so dirt cheap? "Awareness" seems like a waste of time in comparison.

Being able to "price" something requires existence of a functional market. Markets can only exist when contracts can be enforced. Being able to enforce a contract requires monitoring and ability to issue fines, you also needs appropriate laws. All of the above does not exist when it comes to ground water harvesting - especially in India and even in a police state like China.

Yet companies build plants on the Great Lakes, hoover up all the water, filter it, bottle it, and sell it to the unsuspecting, who happily buy it.

I never ever saw bottled water as a kid in Europe. It wasn't until I moved to the US where it appeared to be commonplace. When I went back home to England last year, they've got it in every supermarket I visited. Sad, really. I still just drink out of the tap here in Texas.