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Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

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Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#141

Post by DannyBee »

sergiosgc wrote: post #124
Lazare wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're not following, I think, is how little I care about cars and car companies . :) I don't care about Nissan, and I certainly don't care about a company a quarter their size. I care a little about Toyota because they're huge, but yes, small companies in industries that don't directly impact me are unimportant to me. If I worked for a car company, I'd probably care, but I work for a tech company, so I don't. >…

> Again, I think there is a significant faction of Tesla fans that don't see Tesla as a car company, and instead see it more like SpaceX. I don't. I do, and I'd like to explain why. This is not about cars. The single most important challenge our generation faces is dealing with climate change. We absolutely need to curb CO2 emissions. We don't need to limit CO2 emissions, we need to cut them significantly. There are…

So you fall into the "Tesla is saving the world" superfan category. The problem is that they aren't, and as someone else said, the fans are just really annoying.

I know you don't mean to come off that way, but even your defense of Elon and such in this thread comes off as a combination of "ends justify the means" and sheer sycophantry.

Nobody likes that. It's not as bad as some, mind you. Reading Teslarati makes me feel like these people need a cult deprogrammer, stat.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#142

Post by elisharobinson »

hodder wrote: post #121
elisharobinson wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"monumental fraud" i take issue with that statement , they have best in class motors and battery mgmt unit coupled with awesome infotainment . the bad things are some choices on service model and huge bet on auto-taxi network .Still i dont think i want to drive anything other than a tesla.

Moreso the fraud is continually committing actual securities fraud: lying about production numbers between quarterlies when Elon knows he won’t make the nums he is promising, lying about roll out dates of cars, lying about roll out dates of factories, lying about Tesla’s cash position and capital raise needs to the market immediately before raising capital, lying about take private deals at 420, lying about short sel…

woow thats so much miss information assumptions and truth roled into a meatball paragraph. the only truth is maybe with regards to solar city accusation which again makes some business sense if you think of creating a competitive alternate to coal power . But i digress . lets take everything you said were true then people should sue him, lets the courts decide. also lets just assume for a second that there isnt literal billions to be made by shorting the stock and we live in a fantasy world where wall street ass clown behave honorably and wouldnt meddle with a companies operation just to make a quick buck. now the question of which fantasy land you come from "unacceptable behaviour in securities markets" the same markets which scalp daytraders with HFT , the same market which brought the world close to the brink of collapse in 2008, the same market which controls the health care and water supply of millions and views it as commodity and not a basic human right. I want to be real here for a second ELons whole goal was to accelarate the advent of EV transport which he did by 2 decades or so . He didnt expect tesla to go on for so long nobody did he just kept working one problem at a time to create gr8 products . And still to date there isnt competition for tesla in the price bracket which the fall. be it safety, performance, upkeep cost(cost of gas) and fun value (entertainment and technology) .

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#143

Post by ZeroGravitas »

randomsearch wrote: post #22

Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? Elon can be an asshat sometimes, and he oversells and is over-optimistic. But even if the short sellers are right and Tesla will go bankrupt (which, btw, does not equal failure in many ways), why are so many people excited about that? Most tech giants of recent times have done things I would consider to have made the world a m…

One factor I think is "the Copenhagen interpretation of ethics" which means if you point out that there are people starving on the planet, and you don't immediately give up your entire wealth to do something about it then you are judged as worse than people doing their best to not focus on bad stuff outside of their immediate vision.

https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-eth...

Tesla/Musk obviously fall into this trap with climate change.

Also the parallels in some attacks with what gets used for people like Al Gore makes me think that pointing out a problem that people have staked their political capital on being a hoax, provokes a certain reaction too.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#144

Post by hyperbovine »

ck425 wrote: post #103
hyperbovine wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that is great. I just wish they could do it without lying through their teeth. Elon is still claiming with a straight face that fully autonomous, L5 Teslas are coming next year. This is a lie. Everyone knows it is a lie. Why is this necessary? Couldn't he change the world without engaging in that sort of behavior?

Lying is perhaps the wrong word here. Sharing self-delusion is probably a more accurate way of describing it. He genuinely believes many of his own exaggerations. But to be fair without a big dose of self delusion no one would be crazy enough to try these things in the first place. I take his claims with a massive pinch of salt, while also appreciating that trait is somewhat necessary to solve the problems he's tryin…

> He genuinely believes many of his own exaggerations.

Either a) he is lying, or b) the CEO of multiple companies worth a combined ~$100b is delusional to the point of being unable to recognize basic facts. Pick your poison.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#145

Post by nyokodo »

Robotbeat wrote: post #10
thematt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since January 2018: Jason Mendez, director of manufacturing engineering Will McColl, manager of equipment engineering Jon McNeill, president of global sales and services Eric Branderiz, chief accounting officer Susan Repo, corporate treasurer and vice president of finance Jim Keller, head of Autopilot hardware engineering Georg Ell, director of Western Europe operations Matthew Schwall, director of field performance…

Statistics would be more valuable than a list of titles. How many people have titles such as “president” or “Vice President”? How does this compare to churn at other companies, statistically?

Also statistical comparisons on open positions for these absent positions. Have there been management consolidation? What impact has there been to the functioning of the company?

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#146

Post by elisharobinson »

clouddrover wrote: post #119
elisharobinson wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think we might both be right tesla is a software company and others are catching up to the reality of cyber security in a connected world. they are adopting FOSS to their clossed source systems which isnt the same as building a stack around FOSS from the ground up which is a very software company thing to do.

> i think we might both be right No, you claimed other car companies won't have over-the-air software updates which is false. You claimed Bosch controls automative software which is also false. Bosch also makes use of a lot of open source software: https://oss.bosch-cm.com/

yes i amended my claim after reading the article about auto-Linux(i didn't know about it thanks by the way), but i checked out the Bosch oss and its not what i would call useful maybe i need to look into it a bit more, From what i have seen so far the license disclosure is out of date for few vendors ie, not yet updated since jan'18 , package disclosure show there may be some vulnerable outdated packages on the platform today, its almost like a attack vector brochure. So there may still be cars out there which have these software platforms and they wouldnt be able to update them unless bosch updates it and you patch it through copyrighted update tool which bosch owns , in a service center licensed by Bosch, and your telling me bosch doesnt have a strangle hold of the auto software market, if anything this oss disclosure reaffirms it .the fact that some manager thought this oss discloure sure seems like a good idea is exactly the kinda thing a non tech manager guy would do in a car company.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#147

Post by AtlasBarfed »

randomsearch wrote: post #22

Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? Elon can be an asshat sometimes, and he oversells and is over-optimistic. But even if the short sellers are right and Tesla will go bankrupt (which, btw, does not equal failure in many ways), why are so many people excited about that? Most tech giants of recent times have done things I would consider to have made the world a m…

1) Elon is a nerd. The media loves to do stories on darling nerds transforming the world and then tearing them down with classic American anti-intellectualism and clickbait links at every stage of the Hype Cycle.

2) Oil and big auto hate them. A small company made the technological offerings of car companies and are threatening oil to become obsolete? And the car companies have been whining about CAFE and the inability to make EVs for three decades now.

3) Stock speculators and shorters producing volatility and doing bets.

4) Americans are attached to cars, so all the "car guys" hate Teslas. ESPECIALLY since they smoke ICEs off the line. Go read jalopnik, Tesla is pursuing their two precious bastions of masculinity: the roar of an engine, and whether or not you actually drive a car yourself

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#148

Post by AtlasBarfed »

thomersch_ wrote: post #44
randomsearch wrote: post #22

Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? Elon can be an asshat sometimes, and he oversells and is over-optimistic. But even if the short sellers are right and Tesla will go bankrupt (which, btw, does not equal failure in many ways), why are so many people excited about that? Most tech giants of recent times have done things I would consider to have made the world a m…

For me it's because they do damage their workers' rights and their fans are so insufferable: The denial that they have quality issues, the repeated lies ("we are going to build a factory in weeks", while everyone knows that it will take years), the massive overvaluation. It's either you are on team Tesla and celebrating every of Elon's brainfarts or you are "big oil" that is trying to destroy them: Just look what hap…

Tesla is singularly responsible for the destruction of workers rights? OK. If you want real worker rights bugbears, look at Uber and Lyft.

Their quality issues may exist, but they aren't that bad. They're not. Every person you talk to has lemon stories about every car in existence.

Tesla does not have a monopoly on irrational exuberance in what a company will accomplish. You are commenting on ground zero of internet startups. Tesla actually built cars.

CO2 credit sales are part of a market that actually forces companies to pay for CO2. There is nothing bad about that.

Massive overvaluation: Again, you are commenting on ground zero of wannabe unicorn internet startups. Uber's app can be replicated by a team of 10 in a month. Tesla has a competitive advantage in battery tech, vertical integration, and design, and could displace Toyota in a couple decades.

Fans are insufferable: ok, true.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#149

Post by sergiosgc »

DannyBee wrote: post #141
sergiosgc wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Again, I think there is a significant faction of Tesla fans that don't see Tesla as a car company, and instead see it more like SpaceX. I don't. I do, and I'd like to explain why. This is not about cars. The single most important challenge our generation faces is dealing with climate change. We absolutely need to curb CO2 emissions. We don't need to limit CO2 emissions, we need to cut them significantly. There are…

So you fall into the "Tesla is saving the world" superfan category. The problem is that they aren't, and as someone else said, the fans are just really annoying. I know you don't mean to come off that way, but even your defense of Elon and such in this thread comes off as a combination of "ends justify the means" and sheer sycophantry. Nobody likes that. It's not as bad as some, mind you. Reading Teslarati makes me f…

In no way I believe the ends justify the means. I also did not defend Elon in this thread. You are reading your own bias into my comments.

Criticize Tesla for worker security conditions and hiring practices all you want. It is deserved and should be corrected. The jump from criticism to rooting for failure is the step I don't understand (1). I also do not understand the annoyance caused by praising the fact that Tesla did push the automotive market towards EVs.

(1) I have an explanation, but it's almost insulting to critics: Any kind of venture, more so any kind of _risky_ venture, will attract doomsayers. Once held, personal beliefs are hard to change, so people root for validation of their first evaluation. I'd love to see Tesla criticism justified differently, but that's how I read most hard line critics.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#150

Post by dang »

hevi_jos wrote: post #36
randomsearch wrote: post #22

Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? Elon can be an asshat sometimes, and he oversells and is over-optimistic. But even if the short sellers are right and Tesla will go bankrupt (which, btw, does not equal failure in many ways), why are so many people excited about that? Most tech giants of recent times have done things I would consider to have made the world a m…

>Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? It is nothing personal, it is business. There is an entire financial industry that live out of making bubbles the general public can buy(and they can sell to, expensive) and out of popping bubbles through sorting(buying cheap). When they pop bubbles, it means they can buy extremely cheap things that in normal circumstances their owners will never sell. The sa…

"Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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