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I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

independent.co.uk

61–70 of 202 posts

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#61
post #2

An interesting outcome of the GPDR! Does the author have any recourse? Can they sue?

Not really. Defamation in England is not easy to sue for.

The OP has to show that the statements were published, they are defamatory, and that the OP suffered serious harm as a result.

It'd be for the publisher of the comments to prove (on the balance of probabilities) that the comments were either

   truthful
   fair comment
   privileged
Suing someone for defamation is expensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#62
post #50
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In France (Law n°2018-493 of June 20, 2018 ) you are not permitted to make any race/illness/political/jugdment statement inside any database system (paper or eletronic) be it public or private

I wouldn't think an email would be considered to be inside a "database system."

Not to us, but its info stored in a structured way so... maybe legally.

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#63
post #15
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what? Someone's negative opinion of them?

The author mentions their Aspergers; which means the content of those emails, such as comments like 'stupid,' could be seen as coded discrimination. In nearly all of Europe, intellectual disabilities are a topic of non-discrimination legislation. Ignoring the legal arm-chairing; universities and colleges retaining staff who discriminate students based on intellectual disabilities could face down some bad PR.

I wouldn't go down that road ... You can fit a definition of "stupid" and have Asperger without the former being caused by the latter.

Is saying your black coworker under-performs a form a racism ? Your female coworker being stupid would be sexism (but only if you're a man of course) ?

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#64
post #2

An interesting outcome of the GPDR! Does the author have any recourse? Can they sue?

Yes, they can sue – anyone can sue for anything, after all.

Would they win? Maybe, but the cost would probably not be worth it and of course there's the reputational damage caused by being seen as someone willing to litigate against their employer / university, etc.

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#65
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has famously strict libel laws, and notably the burden of proof is on the defendant to prove the truth of their defamatory speech. https://www.burnetts.co.uk/publications/blogs/libel-and-slan... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law

I think there needs to be an act of publication for defamation law to be engaged though. It might be rather hard to argue that private emails reach that bar.

I'd note that the relevant definition of publish isn't the common-sense use (i.e. make available publicly), but merely "the communication of the defamatory matter to a third person" [0]. Indeed the first link in my prior post specifically calls out defamation via private methods of communication (texting) as something that may be actionable.

[0] http://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/enforcementguide/court/reporti...

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#66
post #34

There are new EU-wide data regulations, known as the GDPR, that were introduced in 2018. These regulations allow people to make a data request, called a Subject Access Request, to any institution that holds any data on them. The definition of data is pretty broad, and I was able to ask my PhD college, and several other institutions, to see all emails in which my name appeared in either the subject line or the body of…

That doesn't seem fair since the emails were sent long before the writer made the requests. If she had never asked for the emails, the same things would be said about her.

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#67
"You are ostracised and isolated. You muddle through, teaching on fixed-term, part-time, zero-hours contracts, a low-paid disposable commodity, writing papers, chapters and articles in what little spare time you have, and believing what you’ve been told, that success is based on merit, that talent is the most important thing, and that if you work hard and hang in there you’ll get there in the end."

I know exactly how the system works in academia. Try being anything other than a Bolshevik and you quickly find out that the machine will identify you and terminate you via a subtle, imprecise but very effective means of shunning, avoidance, and other forms of covert hostility until you give up and go away. It is the same in the corporate world as well, just not fully activated there yet.

Screw the small-minded people doing this. No matter your academic qualifications, what does it say about you as a human being if you can't understand and accept that other people have different ideas and different opinions and that they can't just be ignored or swept away just because you hold onto a bunch of foregone conclusions that you simply accept as right? That's never been right, not ever.

Universities are supposed to be a marketplace of ideas but instead are conformity factories. I have this to say: That is an echo chamber and although people feel secure inside there and smug about it, all such echo chambers eventually end.

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#68
post #45
post #32

> Where my personality was called into question perhaps my working-class background, my northern accent, and my Asperger's could be a reasonable explanation. It's quite likely that ones background and developmental disorders shape one's personality. However, it's still their personality. So what if it has a reason? This touches on the dark abyss of "free will". In some sense all we are is a cellular-automata chugging…

“There but for the grace of God go I”, a sentiment even atheistic people should share. Maybe in dry scientific speak, “if it weren’t for the entirety of human culture, evolution, and the specific conditions of the Earth from prehistory until the present, I would not be here where I am today in my particular frame of mind. I didn’t even get to choose which ‘I’ I am, I could have been the person I hate or pity instead”

People that don't believe in the supernatural can still appreciate the usefulness of God as a metaphor and concept. Provided they don't take things too seriously :)

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#69
post #2

An interesting outcome of the GPDR! Does the author have any recourse? Can they sue?

Yes, I’m interested in the legal status of the remarks made about the author. Nothing seems outright discriminatory or illegal; there’s no law against calling people stupid and unpleasant, presumably. And since your PhD supervisor and examiner aren’t your employers, what laws would apply even regarding obviously discriminatory stuff said about you? Do they actually have any legal obligations to bring disciplinary act…

The university would have obligations under the Equality Act 2010 - it's possible the Aspergers could be considered a disability.

The university wouldn't have an obligation to bring disciplinary proceedings against someone deemed "unpleasant" before calling them such - they would be required to follow their own internal process for raising a disciplinary case.

It sounds like the threshold for a disciplinary case wasn't met in this case. In any event, these sorts of remarks are a grey area and any action to take depends entirely on the specific content of the communications. It's not nice to be called "unpleasant", but it's probably not libellous.

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#70
post #32

> Where my personality was called into question perhaps my working-class background, my northern accent, and my Asperger's could be a reasonable explanation. It's quite likely that ones background and developmental disorders shape one's personality. However, it's still their personality. So what if it has a reason? This touches on the dark abyss of "free will". In some sense all we are is a cellular-automata chugging…

This is a fascinating thing to think about. Some properties like missiong legs are thought of as disabilities and often compensated for by the state. But where is the line? Is depression (hindering ones ability to work or lead a happy life) a disability, or just being not intelligent enough to be a good programmer?
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