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I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

independent.co.uk

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Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#41

Post by hycaria »

kire456 wrote: post #38
hycaria wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what's the point of the article in the first place anyways ? Yeah stuff like that happen, have and will, and sometime verbally so good luck fighting that. Self-improvement seems the most efficient way of fighting that for oneself. I just wanted to remind that the other side of the story was way more probable. Because outcasting her for her accent, despite all the good it brings a team to sprout successful acade…

> Yeah stuff like that happen, have and will, (...) good luck fighting that Fatalism like the kind you suggest adds nothing to the discussion, and indeed to the academic community. It allows bad actors to keep acting badly. An article like this might motivate someone in power to examine whether this kind of conduct occurs in their institution. I don't know about you, but I see a positive expected value. And I am not…

Well if you cut part of the sentence, of course it sounds fatalist, but that refered to the specific part where people talk and use phones to the same extend of giving honest, confidential feedback. And you'll eventually have no spur of those discussions. And bad students will still be spoken of, as luckily do bad advisors.

Please don't tweak sentences to make them fit to whatever discourse you want.

As for the second paragraph, between a freshly graduated PhD and advisors there is still a long way. I hardly see them competing for the same spots. Sure there are probably wicked minds that would try to evict geniuses, but said geniuses would be picked up by less egoistic people (that are luckily way more common).

Rivalry is a thing in academics of course, but from advisors towards their own phds ? There's no stake there for an advisor, but preventing a bad element trained in your team to cast a bad light on you.

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#42

Post by mirages »

nness wrote: post #15
ceejayoz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what? Someone's negative opinion of them?

The author mentions their Aspergers; which means the content of those emails, such as comments like 'stupid,' could be seen as coded discrimination. In nearly all of Europe, intellectual disabilities are a topic of non-discrimination legislation. Ignoring the legal arm-chairing; universities and colleges retaining staff who discriminate students based on intellectual disabilities could face down some bad PR.

In France (Law n°2018-493 of June 20, 2018 ) you are not permitted to make any race/illness/political/jugdment statement inside any database system (paper or eletronic) be it public or private

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#43

Post by bryanrasmussen »

I actually think I've been "blacklisted" at a government agency in my country, or at least someone with hiring power must be working there who specifically does not want to hire me.

Two reasons -

1. some years ago there was a job listing at the agency for a programmer with experience in a governmental specification that I was the technical guy in the working group that made the specification, for heavy experience in some technologies I am very good at, including some international standards in which I am thanked as one of the contributors to the standard and when I applied I got the standard reply some months later they went with someone more qualified which is their choice however I can say with 99.9% certainty there was only one other person in the country possibly more qualified than I am (given the technologies involved and the time) and he wasn't applying.

2. another time they put up a technical challenge and normally when I complete a technical challenge of the particular sort I did the potential employer likes to meet me (they put it online and said try to do this and see if you would be someone we might like to hire). And they said they decided to go with someone else but they did not have any comments on my technical challenge.

So what I'm saying I would really like to get all details from any communications regarding possibly hiring me from that ministry because it might be interesting, but then again I am also of the kind of personality that it just might infuriate me - and what good is that?

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#44

Post by GordonS »

icebraining wrote: post #37
GordonS wrote: post #20

> I was able to ask my PhD college, and several other institutions, to see all emails in which my name appeared in either the subject line or the body of the email Hmm, I don't think I like this, and I don't understand how the GDPR allows you to do this. While I understand that stored emails that mention you are technically "data about you", I wouldn't consider them "your data". Emails are a form of personal communic…

The GDPR does say "the right to obtain a copy (...) shall not adversely affect the rights and freedoms of others", but it doesn't spell out what that means. Still, your work email account can be monitored by your employer (though in the EU they have to provide notice of that monitoring), so you don't have the same protection as in a private account. OTOH, it could be a violation of privacy / data-protection for the a…

> rights and freedoms of others", but it doesn't spell out what that means

Hmm, that's unfortunate it's not at least a little more specific, but at the least I'd expect the right to lawful freedom of speech.

I get that these are "work emails", but this just feels very wrong to me, and doesn't seem to fit with the intent of the GDPR.

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#45

Post by zwkrt »

air7 wrote: post #32

> Where my personality was called into question perhaps my working-class background, my northern accent, and my Asperger's could be a reasonable explanation. It's quite likely that ones background and developmental disorders shape one's personality. However, it's still their personality. So what if it has a reason? This touches on the dark abyss of "free will". In some sense all we are is a cellular-automata chugging…

“There but for the grace of God go I”, a sentiment even atheistic people should share. Maybe in dry scientific speak, “if it weren’t for the entirety of human culture, evolution, and the specific conditions of the Earth from prehistory until the present, I would not be here where I am today in my particular frame of mind. I didn’t even get to choose which ‘I’ I am, I could have been the person I hate or pity instead”

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#46

Post by zaarn »

icebraining wrote: post #37
GordonS wrote: post #20

> I was able to ask my PhD college, and several other institutions, to see all emails in which my name appeared in either the subject line or the body of the email Hmm, I don't think I like this, and I don't understand how the GDPR allows you to do this. While I understand that stored emails that mention you are technically "data about you", I wouldn't consider them "your data". Emails are a form of personal communic…

The GDPR does say "the right to obtain a copy (...) shall not adversely affect the rights and freedoms of others", but it doesn't spell out what that means. Still, your work email account can be monitored by your employer (though in the EU they have to provide notice of that monitoring), so you don't have the same protection as in a private account. OTOH, it could be a violation of privacy / data-protection for the a…

>though in the EU they have to provide notice of that monitoring

There is an interesting exception; if private usage of your work mail account is banned, it should not contain private data and therefore, it's free to be monitored. Same for internet usage. This is usually coded into your contract when you sign.

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#47

Post by Circuits »

Singletoned wrote: post #35

As a fellow Aspy, I started reading this thinking, I bet he's a bit of a difficult person. Maybe an Aspy. > Where my personality was called into question perhaps my working-class background, my northern accent, and my Aspergers could be a reasonable explanation. Ah! Yes, I can guess which one of those three is the reason people found you difficult.

I don't know anyone with Asperger personally but based on my limited research and foreknowledge of the the condition I found it rather odd that the author would be surprised by any of this. I don't have Asperger's and even I wouldn't be surprised by any of this if it were to happen to me.

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#48

Post by aidenn0 »

justin66 wrote: post #30
ceejayoz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what? Someone's negative opinion of them?

Literally the first words in the article: Blacklisting at work has been illegal in the UK since 2010

But what is the bar for blacklisting? If I don't like a colleague and someone asks me for my opinion on them, is it blacklisting for me to honestly share my opinion?

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#49

Post by GordonS »

codeulike wrote: post #40
GordonS wrote: post #20

> I was able to ask my PhD college, and several other institutions, to see all emails in which my name appeared in either the subject line or the body of the email Hmm, I don't think I like this, and I don't understand how the GDPR allows you to do this. While I understand that stored emails that mention you are technically "data about you", I wouldn't consider them "your data". Emails are a form of personal communic…

Its been clear from the start that emails would be covered by GDPR, and I believe that was the intent. edit: Official GDPR site, page on email: https://gdpr.eu/email-encryption/ also, see the widely circulated 'GDPR letter from hell', which is a sort of worst-case access-to-data request that could be made under the legislation: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nightmare-letter-subject-acce... In particular, please tell…

Has it? I've done much reading on the GDPR, and it certainly wasn't clear to me. "Data", of course - but regardless of technicality, I see email/slack/IM messages more as "personal communication" than "data".

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#50

Post by istjohn »

mirages wrote: post #42
nness wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author mentions their Aspergers; which means the content of those emails, such as comments like 'stupid,' could be seen as coded discrimination. In nearly all of Europe, intellectual disabilities are a topic of non-discrimination legislation. Ignoring the legal arm-chairing; universities and colleges retaining staff who discriminate students based on intellectual disabilities could face down some bad PR.

In France (Law n°2018-493 of June 20, 2018 ) you are not permitted to make any race/illness/political/jugdment statement inside any database system (paper or eletronic) be it public or private

I wouldn't think an email would be considered to be inside a "database system."
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