Live data from Hacker News

I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

independent.co.uk

31–40 of 202 posts

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#31
post #20

> I was able to ask my PhD college, and several other institutions, to see all emails in which my name appeared in either the subject line or the body of the email Hmm, I don't think I like this, and I don't understand how the GDPR allows you to do this. While I understand that stored emails that mention you are technically "data about you", I wouldn't consider them "your data". Emails are a form of personal communic…

yeah I would argue that was a data breach.

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#32
> Where my personality was called into question perhaps my working-class background, my northern accent, and my Asperger's could be a reasonable explanation.

It's quite likely that ones background and developmental disorders shape one's personality. However, it's still their personality. So what if it has a reason?

This touches on the dark abyss of "free will". In some sense all we are is a cellular-automata chugging along according to the laws of physics. In that sense everything one does has a "reason". Yet we live our lives, and shape our societies, with the idea that sane adults have an ability to chart their own course, in some sense. (in contrast to children or "insane" people who are considered more reactive/automatic hence not responsible for their actions).

What part of my actions are my responsibility (and therefor have consequences) and what part is beyond my control (and should be forgiven, at least partially)?

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#33
post #20

> I was able to ask my PhD college, and several other institutions, to see all emails in which my name appeared in either the subject line or the body of the email Hmm, I don't think I like this, and I don't understand how the GDPR allows you to do this. While I understand that stored emails that mention you are technically "data about you", I wouldn't consider them "your data". Emails are a form of personal communic…

Interesting. In the USA emails are considered property of the employer.

Outside of that, what is your take on the fact that there must be administrators that have the ability to look through all a system's email?

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#34
There are new EU-wide data regulations, known as the GDPR, that were introduced in 2018. These regulations allow people to make a data request, called a Subject Access Request, to any institution that holds any data on them. The definition of data is pretty broad, and I was able to ask my PhD college, and several other institutions, to see all emails in which my name appeared in either the subject line or the body of the email.

While it may now be legal in the EU to request a copy of all emails that mention you by name, socially it would be a terrible betrayal of trust. Ironically, this seems like clear confirmatory evidence of the sort of red-flag behavior that would cause an advisor to send private emails strongly discouraging others from hiring you even if you were qualified on-paper for the position.

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#35
As a fellow Aspy, I started reading this thinking, I bet he's a bit of a difficult person. Maybe an Aspy.

> Where my personality was called into question perhaps my working-class background, my northern accent, and my Aspergers could be a reasonable explanation.

Ah! Yes, I can guess which one of those three is the reason people found you difficult.

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#36
post #17
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just gets you into a Catch-22... being seen suing previous employers and supervisors will make it even harder to get hired in that field, and possibly any other as well. If the person in question is not really unpleasant (and I don't know that they are not, but let's take it as given for a moment), my suggestion would be doing some strong networking. If you interact with people at conferences and are clearly not…

> being seen suing previous employers and supervisors will make it even harder to get hired in that field, and possibly any other as well. If you win enough in damages then you don't need to worry too much about earning in the future. No idea how likely that is, particularly after paying attorneys' fees.

[deleted]

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#37
post #20

> I was able to ask my PhD college, and several other institutions, to see all emails in which my name appeared in either the subject line or the body of the email Hmm, I don't think I like this, and I don't understand how the GDPR allows you to do this. While I understand that stored emails that mention you are technically "data about you", I wouldn't consider them "your data". Emails are a form of personal communic…

The GDPR does say "the right to obtain a copy (...) shall not adversely affect the rights and freedoms of others", but it doesn't spell out what that means.

Still, your work email account can be monitored by your employer (though in the EU they have to provide notice of that monitoring), so you don't have the same protection as in a private account.

OTOH, it could be a violation of privacy / data-protection for the author of this piece to be divulging the contents of these emails, even if they have a right to a copy.

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#38
post #23
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way or another, we can't really know. But I believe people have an unalienable right to tell their version of a story. As far as these story go, this is one is very civil (and doesn't name the people that are accused of destroying a career and a life). What I don't really understand is what this comment brings to the table. Why try to cast aspersions on an otherwise mild testimony, the truth of which is pretty mu…

Well, what's the point of the article in the first place anyways ? Yeah stuff like that happen, have and will, and sometime verbally so good luck fighting that. Self-improvement seems the most efficient way of fighting that for oneself. I just wanted to remind that the other side of the story was way more probable. Because outcasting her for her accent, despite all the good it brings a team to sprout successful acade…

> Yeah stuff like that happen, have and will, (...) good luck fighting that

Fatalism like the kind you suggest adds nothing to the discussion, and indeed to the academic community. It allows bad actors to keep acting badly. An article like this might motivate someone in power to examine whether this kind of conduct occurs in their institution. I don't know about you, but I see a positive expected value.

And I am not sure what you mean by the other side of the story. She has positive feedback from another supervisor, if the article is to be believed, so isn't the probable explanation a difference of personalities? And is there really any non-pride-or-ego-related reason to try and prevent someone not just from working with you, but in the wider community of which you are part? I can not interpret that behaviour in any way other than malice.

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#39
post #5

>Where my personality was called into question perhaps my working-class background, my northern accent, and my Aspergers could be a reasonable explanation. Easier to resort to such hypotheses than be self critical, I guess. Do we really fall in the category where one student with apparently decent thesis results gets ostarcized by her advisor AND the examiners, where no one in the faculty or comittee would stand for…

Doing this behind her back, and without recourse, refusing to talk about it to the person in question, basically the whole way this happened, does not shine a good light on the advisors here. Plus, you may have noticed, she wrote under a non-identifiable name (outside maybe people already in the know) and didn't name the people in question, nor the institutions. So yeah, she's pissed, IMHO rightfully so, especially s…

So personal recommandations should be disclosed ? That kinda goes against the point of trying to have an open discussion about a potential appliant. And what would the recourse be anyways ?

What good would a talk do, since admittedly it's a person and not a work problem ? Do any good come out of people explaining how they despise your attitude, especially with high stakes, where no response will ever bring closure ?

Yes, btw I hope the publisher has more insight than the reader and does a background check.

Edit : though I agree that the team should've hold a discussion, as sterile as it probably would've been, for it's own reputation.

Re: I thought I was being ‘blacklisted’, so I demanded to see colleagues’ emails

#40
post #20

> I was able to ask my PhD college, and several other institutions, to see all emails in which my name appeared in either the subject line or the body of the email Hmm, I don't think I like this, and I don't understand how the GDPR allows you to do this. While I understand that stored emails that mention you are technically "data about you", I wouldn't consider them "your data". Emails are a form of personal communic…

Its been clear from the start that emails would be covered by GDPR, and I believe that was the intent.

edit: Official GDPR site, page on email: https://gdpr.eu/email-encryption/

also, see the widely circulated 'GDPR letter from hell', which is a sort of worst-case access-to-data request that could be made under the legislation:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nightmare-letter-subject-acce...

In particular, please tell me what you know about me in your information systems, whether or not contained in databases, and including e-mail, documents on your networks, or voice or other media that you may store.

Post reply on HN