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Some models of Airbus A350 airliners need to be hard-rebooted after 149 hours

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Some models of Airbus A350 airliners need to be hard-rebooted after 149 hours

#51

Post by logiclogic »

dijit wrote: post #41
danso wrote: post #31

> The remedy for the A350-941 problem is straightforward according to the AD: install Airbus software updates for a permanent cure, or switch the aeroplane off and on again. The subhed and the above graf say it's as straightforward to fix as installing Airbus software patches. But I assume this process is not as streamlined or convenient as iOS or Tesla OTA auto-updates. Anyone have insight to what installing patches…

The problem isn’t the update itself, which is actually straightforward. It’s the fact that as soon as you modify the software you must do a c check on the craft. Which is a horribly long process, around 6,000 man-hours and puts the aircraft out of commission for a few weeks.

Sounds like a reboot is a better option then.

Re: Some models of Airbus A350 airliners need to be hard-rebooted after 149 hours

#53

Post by syntheticnature »

NullPrefix wrote: post #18
lawlessone wrote: post #12

I kind of feel like these things should be reset regularly to be safe anyway. This was a bug that was known, what if there others?

Crash early, crash hard.

Not what you want in aviation, per se.

Re: Some models of Airbus A350 airliners need to be hard-rebooted after 149 hours

#54

Post by danso »

dijit wrote: post #41
danso wrote: post #31

> The remedy for the A350-941 problem is straightforward according to the AD: install Airbus software updates for a permanent cure, or switch the aeroplane off and on again. The subhed and the above graf say it's as straightforward to fix as installing Airbus software patches. But I assume this process is not as streamlined or convenient as iOS or Tesla OTA auto-updates. Anyone have insight to what installing patches…

The problem isn’t the update itself, which is actually straightforward. It’s the fact that as soon as you modify the software you must do a c check on the craft. Which is a horribly long process, around 6,000 man-hours and puts the aircraft out of commission for a few weeks.

That amount of friction is...strangely reassuring. Is there criteria that defines what kind of software update triggers this process? Or is it required with any update, no matter how small? Though if it's the latter, I'm guessing that incentivizes manufacturers to never send out small or trivial updates.

Re: Some models of Airbus A350 airliners need to be hard-rebooted after 149 hours

#55

Post by logiclogic »

BrentOzar wrote: post #11

I think the comments here say more about us as an audience than they do about the Airbus. We're totally accustomed to hardware & software problems whose solution is, "just restart it," and we don't even find it all that disturbing - mostly just humorous. Our standards as developers & testers have gotten pretty low. I think the only way you'd see outrage here at HN is if the restart involved a real physical crash (as…

It is an issue if they have to reboot it twice.

Re: Some models of Airbus A350 airliners need to be hard-rebooted after 149 hours

#56

Post by lagadu »

briandear wrote: post #40
mpweiher wrote: post #9

So this is already fixed: "The remedy for the A350-941 problem is straightforward according to the AD: install Airbus software updates for a permanent cure ..." And it has the known workaround. So this has almost nothing to do with Airbus at this point, the directive and the "sighs" uttered by the EU aviation agency are directed at the airlines that won't install the update. But good distraction from Boeing's woes as…

> So this has almost nothing to do with Airbus at this point, the directive and the "sighs" uttered by the EU aviation agency are directed at the airlines that won't install the update. Why won’t EASA ground the un-updated airplanes?

Because the root cause of the problem is very well known and because of that the workaround is considered safe.

Re: Some models of Airbus A350 airliners need to be hard-rebooted after 149 hours

#57

Post by mtgx »

dijit wrote: post #41
danso wrote: post #31

> The remedy for the A350-941 problem is straightforward according to the AD: install Airbus software updates for a permanent cure, or switch the aeroplane off and on again. The subhed and the above graf say it's as straightforward to fix as installing Airbus software patches. But I assume this process is not as streamlined or convenient as iOS or Tesla OTA auto-updates. Anyone have insight to what installing patches…

The problem isn’t the update itself, which is actually straightforward. It’s the fact that as soon as you modify the software you must do a c check on the craft. Which is a horribly long process, around 6,000 man-hours and puts the aircraft out of commission for a few weeks.

Sounds better than silicon valley's "move fast and break things", which would be more like "...and kill people" here.

Re: Some models of Airbus A350 airliners need to be hard-rebooted after 149 hours

#58

Post by Nokinside »

danso wrote: post #31

> The remedy for the A350-941 problem is straightforward according to the AD: install Airbus software updates for a permanent cure, or switch the aeroplane off and on again. The subhed and the above graf say it's as straightforward to fix as installing Airbus software patches. But I assume this process is not as streamlined or convenient as iOS or Tesla OTA auto-updates. Anyone have insight to what installing patches…

To my knowledge all upgradeable software is treated exactly like a new part. Upgrade must be certified, and is visible in part databases with part number. There must be a chain of trust. If it's a field upgradeable part, it's delivered in flash drives. If it's something more fundamental, they take the aviation computer out and update the EEPROM.

Certifying a upgrade is the hard part.

Re: Some models of Airbus A350 airliners need to be hard-rebooted after 149 hours

#59

Post by syntheticnature »

briandear wrote: post #40
mpweiher wrote: post #9

So this is already fixed: "The remedy for the A350-941 problem is straightforward according to the AD: install Airbus software updates for a permanent cure ..." And it has the known workaround. So this has almost nothing to do with Airbus at this point, the directive and the "sighs" uttered by the EU aviation agency are directed at the airlines that won't install the update. But good distraction from Boeing's woes as…

> So this has almost nothing to do with Airbus at this point, the directive and the "sighs" uttered by the EU aviation agency are directed at the airlines that won't install the update. Why won’t EASA ground the un-updated airplanes?

As mentioned else-thread, the plane requires a certain level of inspection after the software update, which merely takes a few weeks and lots of human effort.

Re: Some models of Airbus A350 airliners need to be hard-rebooted after 149 hours

#60

Post by syntheticnature »

Interestingly, it looks like the A350 software probably was developed under DO-178B[1] rather than DO-178C[2] given the timing of release. This may seem minor, but Wikipedia's comparison indicates 178B was looser. Of course, these specs just consider requirements, not so much advice on implementation.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DO-178B [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DO-178C

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