Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#41

Post by MegaButts » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 7:54 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #39

MegaButts wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why you think that. While this is a very dense document, it details a lot about the fatality statistics around Teslas and Autopilot. The short version is that Teslas are actually not very safe cars (relatively speaking), and Autopilot is probably much more dangerous than manual driving (although Tesla won't release the data, so we don't know for sure). https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ESnyJ4b7m96O…

That's a list of all fatalities involving Teslas reported in the media, including ones caused by human Tesla drivers or the drivers of other vehicles involved in the collision, and speculation trying to associate that with a number of miles driven. Then they have "miles per death" numbers in the 150M-240M range, but the US average is less than 100M per death (typically stated as the inverse, deaths per 100M miles[1])…

The thing about comparisons is you need to compare like to like as much as possible. Demographics are an essential part of actuarial statistics. I think the best comparison is between Tesla and luxury vehicles, and here is an article showing Teslas are much more dangerous:

https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/teslas-driver-fatality-r...

I'm not sure if you noticed (I didn't the first time I saw that document), but there are multiple tabs and that's under the 'Resources' section.

That said, the data is obviously incomplete. Only Tesla really knows. While it's obviously a guess, I think the most damning evidence is that Tesla isn't releasing their own data to the contrary, because I think Elon Musk of all people would be ecstatic to shutup the haters such as myself.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#42

Post by codeulike » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 7:56 AM UTC

starik36 wrote: post #20

camillomiller wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more: the BMW CEO quit basically for being completely unable to deliver on the EV roadmap and squandering the huge advantage BMW had in the field.

I don't think BMW ever had any kind of advantage in this field, never mind huge.

The i3 was reasonably good for its time, then they disbanded the team and lost their way

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#43

Post by thomasmeeks » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 7:58 AM UTC

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #37

hevi_jos wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? It is nothing personal, it is business. There is an entire financial industry that live out of making bubbles the general public can buy(and they can sell to, expensive) and out of popping bubbles through sorting(buying cheap). When they pop bubbles, it means they can buy extremely cheap things that in normal circumstances their owners will never sell. The sa…

Can you provide a source on your comments about Soros? I've seen this mentioned a few times over the years but I had also heard that it was taken out of context or that he had misspoken and later retracted. Would like to see the primary source if you have it

Snopes has a great write up on it that points to primary sources, including a “60 Minutes” interview.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/george-soros-ss-nazi-germa...

The tl;dr is that such accusations are weird, false, propaganda about Soros.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#44

Post by thomersch_ » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 7:59 AM UTC

randomsearch wrote: post #22

Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? Elon can be an asshat sometimes, and he oversells and is over-optimistic. But even if the short sellers are right and Tesla will go bankrupt (which, btw, does not equal failure in many ways), why are so many people excited about that? Most tech giants of recent times have done things I would consider to have made the world a m…

For me it's because they do damage their workers' rights and their fans are so insufferable: The denial that they have quality issues, the repeated lies ("we are going to build a factory in weeks", while everyone knows that it will take years), the massive overvaluation. It's either you are on team Tesla and celebrating every of Elon's brainfarts or you are "big oil" that is trying to destroy them: Just look what happens when countries try to introduce standardised charing cables.

I just wish they would be frank about what they can and cannot do.

EDIT: And by the way about that pathetic "climate change" argument. Right, they are now selling Fiat their CO2 certificates thus enabling them to do wonderful green washing.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#45

Post by saiya-jin » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 7:59 AM UTC

Robotbeat wrote: post #10

thematt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since January 2018: Jason Mendez, director of manufacturing engineering Will McColl, manager of equipment engineering Jon McNeill, president of global sales and services Eric Branderiz, chief accounting officer Susan Repo, corporate treasurer and vice president of finance Jim Keller, head of Autopilot hardware engineering Georg Ell, director of Western Europe operations Matthew Schwall, director of field performance…

Statistics would be more valuable than a list of titles. How many people have titles such as “president” or “Vice President”? How does this compare to churn at other companies, statistically?

yeah if you look at banking, people with titles like Vice president or Director leave all the time in relatively large numbers and it means nothing. C-suite is another story.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#46

Post by AnthonyMouse » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 8:11 AM UTC

MegaButts wrote: post #41

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a list of all fatalities involving Teslas reported in the media, including ones caused by human Tesla drivers or the drivers of other vehicles involved in the collision, and speculation trying to associate that with a number of miles driven. Then they have "miles per death" numbers in the 150M-240M range, but the US average is less than 100M per death (typically stated as the inverse, deaths per 100M miles[1])…

The thing about comparisons is you need to compare like to like as much as possible. Demographics are an essential part of actuarial statistics. I think the best comparison is between Tesla and luxury vehicles, and here is an article showing Teslas are much more dangerous: https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/teslas-driver-fatality-r... I'm not sure if you noticed (I didn't the first time I saw that document), but the…

The demographic point is true, but it really invalidates the whole thing, because you have to be assuming that the same people who buy a Tesla would have otherwise bought a Mercedes S class and not e.g. a Corvette or Porsche. If the Telsa owners skew younger or have other demographic differences from ordinary luxury car purchasers then the comparison is meaningless without factoring that in because you're measuring the driver behavior as much as the cars. (And choosing "luxury cars" rather than "sports cars" or just "cars" as the comparison is maximally unfavorable, since luxury vehicles are generally the safest available regardless of driver.)

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#47

Post by hef19898 » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 8:19 AM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #19

thematt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since January 2018: Jason Mendez, director of manufacturing engineering Will McColl, manager of equipment engineering Jon McNeill, president of global sales and services Eric Branderiz, chief accounting officer Susan Repo, corporate treasurer and vice president of finance Jim Keller, head of Autopilot hardware engineering Georg Ell, director of Western Europe operations Matthew Schwall, director of field performance…

30 people leaving Tesla with job titles as low as "manager" over the course of a year and a half is almost meaningless without seeing how this stacks up against other tech companies of a similar size.

There's a potential fallicy here. Tesla should be compared to other car companies and not software companies. Because Tesla is building cars.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#48

Post by randomsearch » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 8:23 AM UTC

thomersch_ wrote: post #44

randomsearch wrote: post #22

Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? Elon can be an asshat sometimes, and he oversells and is over-optimistic. But even if the short sellers are right and Tesla will go bankrupt (which, btw, does not equal failure in many ways), why are so many people excited about that? Most tech giants of recent times have done things I would consider to have made the world a m…

For me it's because they do damage their workers' rights and their fans are so insufferable: The denial that they have quality issues, the repeated lies ("we are going to build a factory in weeks", while everyone knows that it will take years), the massive overvaluation. It's either you are on team Tesla and celebrating every of Elon's brainfarts or you are "big oil" that is trying to destroy them: Just look what hap…

So, you made me realise I'd been ambiguous here, sorry.

I'll have to name companies to explain: Uber have undermined workers' rights in a systematic way, through the development of their concept of contract employees and the gig economy.

I have heard plenty of stories about SpaceX (not Tesla, but I'll assume similar stories exist) not treating their employees well. So yes, they've hurt workers rights too, so I accept your point. It's different kind of issue though, because it's particular to one company and not systemic, which is what I originally meant to say.

Disagree strongly about the climate change/greenwashing argument. I believe Tesla is a net positive in tackling climate change, which is what matters.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#49

Post by threeseed » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 8:23 AM UTC

KptMarchewa wrote: post #24

MegaButts wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I dislike Tesla because I think Autopilot causes preventable deaths.

Humans driving cars cause preventable deaths.

What is the point of this comment ? Humans doing anything cause preventable deaths.

That has nothing to do with whether or not a new, potentially life threatening technology should be on the market.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#50

Post by MegaButts » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 8:23 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #46

MegaButts wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about comparisons is you need to compare like to like as much as possible. Demographics are an essential part of actuarial statistics. I think the best comparison is between Tesla and luxury vehicles, and here is an article showing Teslas are much more dangerous: https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/teslas-driver-fatality-r... I'm not sure if you noticed (I didn't the first time I saw that document), but the…

The demographic point is true, but it really invalidates the whole thing, because you have to be assuming that the same people who buy a Tesla would have otherwise bought a Mercedes S class and not e.g. a Corvette or Porsche. If the Telsa owners skew younger or have other demographic differences from ordinary luxury car purchasers then the comparison is meaningless without factoring that in because you're measuring t…

That's a valid criticism, but I still think it's the best analysis with the available data.

FWIW, and this is completely anecdotal, I find Tesla drivers to be the most obnoxious on the road - which would lend credence to your argument that it attracts a certain kind of person and is not the car itself. That's ignoring the entire Autopilot X factor though, which is a whole separate conversation with even more missing data.

‾\_(ツ)_/‾