FTC Imposes $5B Penalty and Sweeping New Privacy Restrictions on Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: FTC Imposes $5B Penalty and Sweeping New Privacy Restrictions on Facebook

#161

Post by WhompingWindows » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 6:13 PM UTC

kijin wrote: post #97

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #86

Someone I work with found this: The interesting part is in the write up from The Verge ( https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/24/20707013/ftc-facebook-set... ): > "The settlement’s $5 billion penalty makes for a good headline," FTC commissioner Rohit Chopra wrote in his dissent. "But the terms and conditions, including blanket immunity for Facebook executives and no real restraints on Facebook’s business model, do not fix…

If they really "fixed" the core problems at Facebook, Facebook would have to cease to exist. Their business model from the very beginning has been based on collecting highly intimate personal information from everyone and using it for Zuck's gain. Facebook ceasing to exist is probably not a bad idea, but it's rather unrealistic.

It'll probably exist forever, but the more we expose FB's rampant wrong-doing, the less people will use it. The young have already moved away from it, once older generations die off, FB will then start dying off as well...if only they weren't allowed to buy all their competitors.

Re: FTC Imposes $5B Penalty and Sweeping New Privacy Restrictions on Facebook

#162

Post by pyython » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 6:13 PM UTC

pyython wrote: post #156

gridlockd wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did give them explicit permission by participating in the modern financial system. That's why I keep saying all the hypothetical privacy concerns with Facebook's Libra already are reality with the current financial system. Equifax also didn't get fined because of what they were doing, but because they were negligent in handling the data. Having said that, given the importance of consumer debt in the US economy, c…

> You did give them explicit permission by participating in the modern financial system. This at best would qualify as implicit consent. Which is very different and not sufficient. There should at the very least be a big button you have to press for every agreement you enter into that shares data with credit bureaus that clearly states that you: 1) consent to sharing all of your transaction data with credit bureaus 2…

Coincidentally, since you brought up Libra: I actually think one of the biggest bull cases for crypto in general (not necessarily Libra) is solving this exact problem. You have an immutable record of all of your transactions that is not explicitly tied to your identity (just a public key). The role of a credit bureau when you apply for credit then would be to ask you to prove ownership of (one or many) public key(s) that they can then run algorithms over to assess your creditworthiness. They don't have to custodian the data at any point. They can be compelled to forget that you are the owner of a particular public key. The end user has full control over how their data is used. And creditors are still able to assess creditworthiness. Win-win-win-win.

Re: FTC Imposes $5B Penalty and Sweeping New Privacy Restrictions on Facebook

#163

Post by clay_the_ripper » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 6:17 PM UTC

kgwxd wrote: post #139

indiandragon wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prohibited from using telephone numbers obtained to enable a security feature (e.g., two-factor authentication) for advertising Facebook is not alone in misuse or wrongful use of phone number given for 2FA. LinkedIn explicitly requires phone number to be added on the profile to enable 2FA and makes the phone number visible by default to all the contacts, if you don't want your phone number visible; you'll have to l…

Based on that phrasing, I feel like they could just reword the way they ask for the number. Instead of "Enter your phone number to enable 2FA" it would say "2FA can not be enabled without a phone number associated with your profile" and leave it at that. Then on the profile page where you enter you phone number it just list various "benefits" of giving them your phone number "friends can use it to find you", "faster…

That’s a smart point. Yes they could probably do that.

Re: FTC Imposes $5B Penalty and Sweeping New Privacy Restrictions on Facebook

#164

Post by thesausageking » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 6:23 PM UTC

The head of the FTC voted against it and gave his reasoning here:

https://twitter.com/chopraftc/status/1154010756079390720

One that stood out for me is complete immunity for for the execs for "known" and "unknown" violations:

"Mark Zuckerberg, Sheryl Sandberg, and other executives get blanket immunity for their role in the violations. This is wrong and sets a terrible precedent. The law doesn’t give them a special exemption. The settlement fine print gives Facebook broad immunity for “known” and “unknown” violations. What’s covered by these immunity deals? Facebook knows, but the public is kept in the dark."

Re: FTC Imposes $5B Penalty and Sweeping New Privacy Restrictions on Facebook

#165

Post by jiveturkey » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 6:24 PM UTC

jawns wrote: post #8

A lot of the terms of the settlement deal with organizational changes, but when you look at the very specific privacy restrictions that Facebook agreed to, it's really, really problematic stuff: * Facebook is prohibited from using telephone numbers obtained to enable a security feature (e.g., two-factor authentication) for advertising; * Facebook must provide clear and conspicuous notice of its use of facial recognit…

> So from Facebook's perspective, this is probably a big win.

being fined 25% of annual profit (2018 $22.111bn) is probably not "a big win".

But yeah, the business terms of the settlement are surely inspiring a champagne toast back at HQ.

Re: FTC Imposes $5B Penalty and Sweeping New Privacy Restrictions on Facebook

#166

Post by jiveturkey » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 6:29 PM UTC

almost_usual wrote: post #151

djsumdog wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So from Facebook's perspective, this is probably a big win. $5 billion is a lot, but Facebook is huge. Even considering, it's probably not pocket change for them, but they are getting a benefit from it for sure. They are buying public opinion. "Look at us..we took a big fine and agreed to respect your privacy .. you can trust us now." It's essentially a very expensive ad, used to rebuild trust with their cattle; I…

The independent party for privacy review is a much bigger deal than the fine. This out of Mark Zuckerberg's control now, they will be audited constantly for any product changes they make. "As part of Facebook’s order-mandated privacy program, which covers WhatsApp and Instagram, Facebook must conduct a privacy review of every new or modified product, service, or practice before it is implemented, and document its dec…

At FB level, this is already a requirement for GDPR. The only difference is that it must be shared with an independent assessor rather than held strictly internally.

Re: FTC Imposes $5B Penalty and Sweeping New Privacy Restrictions on Facebook

#167

Post by jiveturkey » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

thesausageking wrote: post #164

The head of the FTC voted against it and gave his reasoning here: https://twitter.com/chopraftc/status/1154010756079390720 One that stood out for me is complete immunity for for the execs for "known" and "unknown" violations: "Mark Zuckerberg, Sheryl Sandberg, and other executives get blanket immunity for their role in the violations. This is wrong and sets a terrible precedent. The law doesn’t give them a special ex…

this needs to be at the top

Re: FTC Imposes $5B Penalty and Sweeping New Privacy Restrictions on Facebook

#168

Post by gridlockd » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

pyython wrote: post #156

gridlockd wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did give them explicit permission by participating in the modern financial system. That's why I keep saying all the hypothetical privacy concerns with Facebook's Libra already are reality with the current financial system. Equifax also didn't get fined because of what they were doing, but because they were negligent in handling the data. Having said that, given the importance of consumer debt in the US economy, c…

> You did give them explicit permission by participating in the modern financial system. This at best would qualify as implicit consent. Which is very different and not sufficient. There should at the very least be a big button you have to press for every agreement you enter into that shares data with credit bureaus that clearly states that you: 1) consent to sharing all of your transaction data with credit bureaus 2…

> This at best would qualify as implicit consent.

It doesn't, I'm just using your umbrella term of "participating in the modern financial system". Read the terms of service you agreed to for the various financial services that you use. You'll find something akin to "we can share (aggregates of) your data with our partners". This is explicit consent.

> There should at the very least be a big button...

Fair enough, but I don't think it would really change anything. After all, what's the alternative to "participating in the modern financial system"?

Re: FTC Imposes $5B Penalty and Sweeping New Privacy Restrictions on Facebook

#169

Post by msla » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 6:46 PM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #160

The most important privacy enhancement they could make is nowhere to be found in this settlement: Provide easy means for users to permanently delete all information, posts, comments and messages, as well as a setting to automatically expire and delete all if the above as desired. This should include backups.

This is useless because of external backups, and not desirable because of things like posts becoming evidence of criminality.

Re: FTC Imposes $5B Penalty and Sweeping New Privacy Restrictions on Facebook

#170

Post by thorwasdfasdf » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 6:50 PM UTC

thfuran wrote: post #147

pyython wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to say this! I still can't believe credit bureaus are allowed to even exist. At no time do I give them explicit permission to collect my (very) personal information, there's almost literally no way I can opt out (short of not participating in the modern financial system), their interpretation of this data has an outsized influence on my quality of life, AND they have proven themselves incompetent at protect…

>If I'm worried about Facebook's use of my data the answer is simple: stop using Facebook. Don't forget to stop using every website that embeds facebook buttons (or block the scripts). It's not exactly easy to prevent facebook from gathering information either.

just log out and wipe your cookies/localstorage.