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Use plaintext email

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Re: Use plaintext email

#221

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

esoterica wrote: post #215
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finally back at a computer, can reply to this in full now: >I would disagree, You can make Text-only links look fairly harmless too. The issue is more often that people do not look at all, even in text-mail, what the link points to, not that they can't see it (plus you can hover and the browser still shows the URL once you open it) It would be difficult to argue that it's not at least more difficult to phish people w…

For the vast majority of people html formatting is better and more efficient for their communication needs. Bold and highlighted text, section headers, tables and inline images are all very very standard and useful things to have in emails. These are not niche use cases.

I have never seen an email with a table in it, HTML or not.

Inline images are not useful, just attach them. Leave your giant signature with your company logo at the door.

What's left is section headers and bold text. Use asterisks for emphasis and # for section headers and you can communicate quite effectively. We seem to manage pretty well here on Hacker News without most of these features, wouldn't you say?

Re: Use plaintext email

#222

Post by Boulth »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #120
ignaloidas wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that page recommends using git send-email, on which the author also made a tutorial: https://git-send-email.io

Thanks for the link - this is indeed my stance, I don't think people should be pasting patches into their daily MUA.

That should be highlighted more. Not using git sendmail is the problem, not format=flowed.

Re: Use plaintext email

#223

Post by adtac »

snowwrestler wrote: post #175
wyldfire wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being able to use color, or bold, or italics, makes a difference in communication. It really does. Color, especially helps people find the relevant/critical part.

It's true, in fact here's a good example of someone using color to improve their communication: https://useplaintext.email/

>"But if plaintext is so good, why is this page written in HTML?"

>This is a reference document, not an email, you twit.

Re: Use plaintext email

#224

Post by jodrellblank »

virtualritz wrote: post #48
atombender wrote: post #36

The problems with HTML email originate in the days when clients like Outlook would produce horrendous, non-responsive HTML that were basically entire embedded web pages; the idea that the sender should be able to dictate the font of an email is a bit ridiculous, not to mention the layout, and the result was often broken depending on the email client. Emails aren't web pages, but they do benefit from formatting (bold,…

"After all, everyone has their plaintext style" This is counter to my own experience. I am using (plain text) email since 27 years. Including inline quoting and avoiding top posting at all costs. People used bold (not sure how to render a '*' in HN) /italic/ and _underscore_ consistently on lists, newsgroups and -- rarely, as seldomly needed -- in private correspondence. I learned how to do this by example. Everyone…

"The only reason people use HTML email is that it's the default. Not that it's better in any way."

There are people in this page of comments right here, explaining their use of HTML, their reasoning for using it, and how it's better in many ways.

Re: Use plaintext email

#225

Post by Brometheus »

u801e wrote: post #179
SifJar wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An internet forum (presumably we're referring to a public forum here) is a very different communication medium than email (especially when used in a professional context)

> An internet forum (presumably we're referring to a public forum here) is a very different communication medium than email Not really. Take a look at any email discussion like the Linux kernel mailing list or the git mailing list. Same thing with newsgroups (usenet).

Yes really. Take a look at the mails I use to discuss things with my customers.

Re: Use plaintext email

#226

Post by esoterica »

throw0101a wrote: post #78
joegreen wrote: post #2

I would like to read more details about "The former is strongly preferred". Why is plain text preferred and by whom?

> Why is plain text preferred and by whom? Besides making phishing easier (by disguising links, unless you hover over them), what exactly does HTML add? Most people simply bang out a bunch of text without any formatting: what does wrapping HTML around that add? I have yet to see a layman someone add useful typographic flourishes to any business communications. Any "advanced" formatting has always come from marketers.

People use bold and italics, section headers, inline images, tables, text highlighting. The list goes on. Is it really that hard to wrap your head around the fact that formatting is useful for communication?

Re: Use plaintext email

#227

Post by adtac »

kilburn wrote: post #204
earthboundkid wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in email?

> Q. Why is top-posting such a bad thing? It is not, so long as you first quote the relevant part you are replying to. At some point you can also trim the tail as you see fit (I don't find it necessary because my mail client does a good enogh job at hiding that part unless I click on a "show wverything" button. > 2019-07-24 10:50 earthboundkid wrote: > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? >> 2019-07-23 23:55 someo…

That's called interleaved posting and it's the preferred style: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_styl...

Re: Use plaintext email

#228

Post by NoGravitas »

I'd like to see formatting for email that doesn't have the security and privacy vulnerabilities and complexity of HTML email. Markdown would be fine. Inline images can refer only to attachments in the same message, not to arbitrary URLs. Maybe some restrictions on links to reduce their effectiveness in phishing emails. It would be fine. It would be everything you actually need.

Re: Use plaintext email

#229

Post by zepolen »

scrollaway wrote: post #180
zepolen wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

images loading..2% images loading..15% images loading..29% images loading..42% images loading..58% images loading..74% images loading..89% images loading..100% ____________________________________ | | | O O | | O | | \_/ | | MY LOGO | | My catchphrase | | | | | | | |------------------------------------| | | | Hi josho! | | | | This is why it's slower to read! | | | |____________________________________|

This isn't a thing, which makes me think you're arguing in bad faith. Clients load images asynchronously, and no personal email is sent with a logo and catchphrase header. I've never seen that in my entire life and I've been using email with a lot of people, for a long time. Formatting is an issue however, and the addition of formatting to email can be useful and add to the conversation. To take the hn example again,…

So you have never received a message like this in your inbox.

No notifications from various services/companies you use on a daily basis.

Who's arguing in bad faith again?

Re: Use plaintext email

#230

Post by hyperpape »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #221
esoterica wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the vast majority of people html formatting is better and more efficient for their communication needs. Bold and highlighted text, section headers, tables and inline images are all very very standard and useful things to have in emails. These are not niche use cases.

I have never seen an email with a table in it, HTML or not. Inline images are not useful, just attach them. Leave your giant signature with your company logo at the door. What's left is section headers and bold text. Use asterisks for emphasis and # for section headers and you can communicate quite effectively. We seem to manage pretty well here on Hacker News without most of these features, wouldn't you say?

I routinely insert org-mode tables into emails I send at work (now that I think about it, that's a little funny, given that I'm consistently pro-HTML-email in these threads).
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