Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth • Hacker News Board

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#361

Post by dang » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 9:23 AM UTC

burfog wrote: post #353

chrissnell wrote: post #125

It's a little peculiar how this blog post really pushes the inclusiveness angle despite the numbers showing clearly that it is not a big priority for prospective employees. They even go as far as highlighting that the sampled women want inclusiveness 171% more than the sampled men, which sounds pretty strong, but hides the real story when you look at the _actual numbers_. Only 15% of women ranked inclusion as a top p…

"inclusiveness" is a euphemism. I take it to mean a place where an accidental offense (in the eye of the beholder) will get people fired, where business success isn't the priority, where people will constantly be reminded that the company values some employees less just because of some inborn traits, and where employees will be suspecting each other of having been given unfair advantage instead of earning their posit…

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. That's exactly what we don't want here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#362

Post by therein » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 9:23 AM UTC

dillonmckay wrote: post #42

antoinevg wrote: post #32

Fuck that, I've been doing this for 25 years and what I want in order of importance is: 1) Pay me 2) Autonomy

I am willing to forgo #2 if #1 is high enough.

I am currently working for a company paying me ~185k cash + 1M in options over 4 years. My strike price isn't amazing but I have great autonomy. I like the people I work with and I have no problems. And I have been here for just about a year.

However a company recently lured me in and we had an onsite interview. Still had great chemistry with everyone and enjoyed the prospect of working there. They offered 550k in cash.

I accepted the offer but am still conflicted. My start date is some time away still. Hopefully I will be able to have the same autonomy and sense of fulfillment in this place as well.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#363

Post by dang » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 9:24 AM UTC

orcdork wrote: post #360

burfog wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"inclusiveness" is a euphemism. I take it to mean a place where an accidental offense (in the eye of the beholder) will get people fired, where business success isn't the priority, where people will constantly be reminded that the company values some employees less just because of some inborn traits, and where employees will be suspecting each other of having been given unfair advantage instead of earning their posit…

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Please don't respond to a bad comment with another bad one. The site guidelines explicitly ask you not to do this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#364

Post by dang » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 9:26 AM UTC

kevinyun wrote: post #346

xtracto wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is because it is SEO spam. TripleByte regularly posts these here in HackerNews to promote their hiring platform. People seem to like it nonetheless

If a tree falls in the woods because a ex-YC partner chopped it down, it makes a sound that everyone else can hear

Not sure what you're alluding to there, but no YC or ex-YC partnerness had any effect on this thread. Users upvoted it, for whatever reasons users upvote things for. HN moderators didn't touch it, let alone anyone else at YC.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#365

Post by orcdork » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 9:27 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #363

orcdork wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-

Please don't respond to a bad comment with another bad one. The site guidelines explicitly ask you not to do this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You're right. Can't delete the comment any more but I edited it.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#366

Post by tcpekin » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 9:36 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #364

kevinyun wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a tree falls in the woods because a ex-YC partner chopped it down, it makes a sound that everyone else can hear

Not sure what you're alluding to there, but no YC or ex-YC partnerness had any effect on this thread. Users upvoted it, for whatever reasons users upvote things for. HN moderators didn't touch it, let alone anyone else at YC.

It is dangerous to speak to others allusions, but I believe both that HN moderators/YC had nothing to do with the strength of the thread, and also that YC or YC affiliated companies occupy more of the HN consciousness than other companies of the same size, space, etc. An analysis would actually be really interesting, but I would bet, and agree with OP, that YC companies are naturally more occurring on the top/active HN lists, and (less analyzable) not always based on the strength of their articles, blogs, actions, but rather their affiliations.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#367

Post by themarkn » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 9:47 AM UTC

CompanionCuuube wrote: post #245

themarkn wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure that the lesson to be learned from the medical profession’s overburdening of its professionals is that other well paid industries should follow suit and overburden their own professionals.

Is the medical profession unique in that way? Do lawyers not need to keep up with existing legislation and case law? I know research scientists that use alerting tools for getting notified about publications covering their subject.

Sure, I just used medical as the example because that’s what the parent comment talked about. There are many other industries with problems maintaining a good work/life balance for people who work there. Often those gigs are lower paid than tech work. I worked many more hours and had a more stressful, less predictable life when I worked at a nonprofit, before I became a developer. Now I mostly work 9-5, sometimes an extra hour or two here and there but no expectation that I’m doing stuff outside of work. I have some side projects, meetups etc that I spend time on, but can also spend time at work learning new things or trying stuff out.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#368

Post by themarkn » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 9:58 AM UTC

shawnz wrote: post #250

themarkn wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure that the lesson to be learned from the medical profession’s overburdening of its professionals is that other well paid industries should follow suit and overburden their own professionals.

Then salaries in our industry need to decrease if we don't want to be held to a standard of overburdening ourselves. The salaries in our industry have a precedent which was set by individuals that overburdened themselves. That might have been irrational, but if we want to change that, then we need to accept less pay. We can't have the same rewards as they did while doing less work, even if the amount of work they did…

We aren’t being rewarded for how hard we work, we’re being rewarding for having skills that are in high demand while supply has not caught up yet. Salaries may well go down in future when the need for developers is less or the pool of talent is bigger. We also aren’t trapped by the examples set by previous developers - our productivity varies depending on what we are doing, the tools we are using, what our team is like, etc - not just the raw number of hours we put in.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#369

Post by blueboo » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 10:17 AM UTC

chrissnell wrote: post #125

It's a little peculiar how this blog post really pushes the inclusiveness angle despite the numbers showing clearly that it is not a big priority for prospective employees. They even go as far as highlighting that the sampled women want inclusiveness 171% more than the sampled men, which sounds pretty strong, but hides the real story when you look at the _actual numbers_. Only 15% of women ranked inclusion as a top p…

None of them marked lack of violence or emotional abuse as a priority, either. Telling that even women - Females! - didn’t even write in to mention it.

After realizing that, it seems to confirm what I’ve suspected all along: people mostly want to money and the potential to make more money in the future.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#370

Post by rimliu » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 10:29 AM UTC

frequentnapper wrote: post #173

cbanek wrote: post #122

> Second, women engineers prioritize growth to an even greater extent than men, and they place particular secondary emphasis on inclusivity and comfort with their work and environment. Woman in tech here. I agree completely, and I'd almost say that saying you want to grow your career in an inclusive environment is saying "I want to grow in a place that will actually value me and promote me." Been in so many places wh…

true story: sister was hired at a big company as a tester with degrees in bio and comp sci. The manager had her doing manual testing for a year. She aspired to be a developer. Even offered to automate testing on her own time after work. The manager told her if she has extra time, she should do more manual testing instead. When a dev position opened up on the team, he just hired some coop guy instead for it without ev…

My understanding is that she'd be at the junior level as the developer. Was the position for junior? If not then this is non-story.