Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth • Hacker News Board

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#321

Post by titanomachy » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 3:45 AM UTC

frequentnapper wrote: post #289

Benjammer wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did she take a job as a tester if she was a CS grad with developer aspirations?

we were in a small city on the west coast. it was almost impossible for her to get hired as a dev most probably because she was a female and because she didn't have "coding" experience was made to feel worthless. She is not the type to open up an IDE and just start coding. She asks tough questions first. Another story: comp sci 4th year - systems course. She's assigned a team. Douche c++ whiz thinks he's the shit. co…

"It's a tough world in software dev if you aren't the type to constantly overestimate your worth."

Well put. I was talking to a friend recently about the difference between mediocre and very successful engineers, and that quality came to mind as the biggest predictor of success. Don't think of yourself in terms of how effective you currently are, think of how effective you _could_ be. Assume that you can figure out pretty much anything given enough time. But don't be too cocky to ask for help.

Contrast that with mediocre candidates: ask them to solve something they've never done before, and they won't even try because they assume they're not good enough.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#322

Post by autotune » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 4:12 AM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #309

chadash wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Partially because I enjoy learning and growing my technical skills, partially because I want to move into more leadership roles, but a huge part of it is because I know that if I'm good, I will be paid a massive premium for it." And it's one of the unfair things in life that jobs that pay more often get other benefits as well. Making $40k/year? Chances are you get 2 weeks vacation, inflexible work hours, inferior…

With $200k/year also comes accountability. No one keeps tabs on your hours, but you better get stuff done!

As long as it’s mostly fun stuff with proper checks and balances hell yeah!

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#323

Post by baron816 » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 4:14 AM UTC

zuhayeer wrote: post #270

nscalf wrote: post #5

I'm a software engineer with ~3 years of experience. I also want professional growth. Partially because I enjoy learning and growing my technical skills, partially because I want to move into more leadership roles, but a huge part of it is because I know that if I'm good, I will be paid a massive premium for it. levels.fyi sort of convinced me that being a good engineer is a life changing event for more than 1 genera…

Creator of levels.fyi here - a big part of making the site was to highlight the economic impact of working a technical job and the exponential growth it comes with as you progress in your career (Glassdoor sucked at showing this). There are just more & better opportunities the farther you go!

Yep, it can be a big motivator. I think companies should dangle those numbers around more. “Competitive compensation” doesn’t really mean anything. Saying top engineers can earn >$1M will make a lot of people ask “what do I need to do to be a top engineer?”

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#324

Post by somebodythere » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 4:20 AM UTC

shados wrote: post #238

enraged_camel wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Nope. Not spending my weekend fooling around to impress some potential employer. I'm going to spend it with my kids, riding my bike, and enjoying life. Okay, it is time for some harsh love. You won't like it, and I'll get downvotes, but whatever. It needs to be said. My parents are both doctors, and they are in their 60s now. And you know what? They still work their asses off, on many evenings and weekends, trying…

> I detest this sense of entitlement that programmers have I don't agree with all of your post (but do some of it). However at the pace companies are expanding their hiring net, the supply and demand ratios are going to flip sooner or later. The current seller's market isn't going to last and a lot of folks will have a serious reality check.

How do companies expanding their hiring net decrease demand?

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#325

Post by yoz-y » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 4:36 AM UTC

chrissnell wrote: post #125

It's a little peculiar how this blog post really pushes the inclusiveness angle despite the numbers showing clearly that it is not a big priority for prospective employees. They even go as far as highlighting that the sampled women want inclusiveness 171% more than the sampled men, which sounds pretty strong, but hides the real story when you look at the _actual numbers_. Only 15% of women ranked inclusion as a top p…

I guess it will be low on priority list unless you have somehow suffered the consequences of a non-inclusive workplace. Especially since a non-inclusive workplace in general mostly means that everything is fine as long as you are a man.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#326

Post by joshuamorton » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 4:39 AM UTC

conanbatt wrote: post #70

XMPPwocky wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a more effective tactic, in expectation, than working a well-paid job at an established company and then going to Vegas every year to bet a decent chunk of your salary?

Well, Sam Altman & Andressen have strong opinion on it: join rocket ships. You can also get a much higher position at a well paid job if one of the bets pays off, or if you find growth opportunities. While getting a promotion at google might take you 4 years, in a high growth startup you might jump 2 steps in 6 months.

To be a bit cynical, Sam Altman and Anderssen make more money when more people work at startups.

If you compare someone who joined Uber in 2014 with someone who joined Facebook or Google in 2014, I'm honestly not sure who would have come out ahead. Probably Uber, but not by a whole lot.

And Uber is the best case scenario, practically speaking.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#327

Post by Iv » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 4:47 AM UTC

puranjay wrote: post #126

chadash wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Partially because I enjoy learning and growing my technical skills, partially because I want to move into more leadership roles, but a huge part of it is because I know that if I'm good, I will be paid a massive premium for it." And it's one of the unfair things in life that jobs that pay more often get other benefits as well. Making $40k/year? Chances are you get 2 weeks vacation, inflexible work hours, inferior…

> when someone pays you more, they respect you more I can't stress this enough. The more I charged as a consultant, the more my clients would shut up and heed my advice.

My first boss started to respect me after we had a shouting negotiation with him over my work contract. The employer-employee relationship is weird and toxic as hell.

Work long hours? Develop additional tool during your free time? Help clients more than your job requires? You are a sucker.

Manage to shout enough to get a raise? Now you are a champion.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#328

Post by selestify » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 5:07 AM UTC

distantaidenn wrote: post #292

logifail wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when someone pays you more, they respect you more The counter-example to that could be that once you're senior enough, you are never 100% on vacation. If enough goes wrong, you will get called back to work.

Definitely. Called back to work from a holiday on a Thai island. CEO was near frothing at the mouth over my absence when shit hit the fan.

What the hell? Did you accept the call back to work?

> CEO was near frothing at the mouth over my absence when shit hit the fan.

I'd be the one offended for having my vacation interrupted.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#329

Post by PeterStuer » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 5:27 AM UTC

bostik wrote: post #205

Jach wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a disorganized workplace to me. The standard thought experiment is: what happens if gets hit by a bus and dies? What if they're just in a coma for a few weeks? The response to the first satisfies a sudden "I'm quitting" and the response to the second satisfies a sudden "I'm going on vacation". Business is more forgiving of course, since both quitting and vacation planning typically have a time delay.…

I am going to hazard a guess: you have not been exposed to some of the nuttier regulations within this space. The regulatory demands in financial technology, and especially in those industries where both the regulators as well as majority of the players may not be technically literate, are effectively the anti-thesis of robust and reliable engineering. When the industry regulations demand that for every potentially d…

I have consulted in very large financial institutions. Yes, there are a lot of rules. At the same time, those rules will be 'creatively interpreted' if not skirted all the time to keep disruptions to a minimum. 'The rulebook' treatment was in fact a sure sign of internal political power games being played out.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#330

Post by sgift » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 5:30 AM UTC

chrissnell wrote: post #125

It's a little peculiar how this blog post really pushes the inclusiveness angle despite the numbers showing clearly that it is not a big priority for prospective employees. They even go as far as highlighting that the sampled women want inclusiveness 171% more than the sampled men, which sounds pretty strong, but hides the real story when you look at the _actual numbers_. Only 15% of women ranked inclusion as a top p…

> Only 15% of women ranked inclusion as a top priority, which is telling.

The problem with top rank only is that the top spot is basically a dice roll between various things which are important for people. A "top 3" (or another number significantly smaller than all categories asked, but more than 1) is usually far more interesting and less driven by chance. That doesn't invalidate what you wrote - maybe it is unimportant for most people, but there's not enough data here to tell.