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Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

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Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#131

Post by ksec »

rhymer wrote: post #127
throwaway2048 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason it adds $150 is the ridiculousness surrounding Qualcomm licensing.

If I remember correctly the royalty was $7.5 per iPhone. Not sure how that alone contributes to the $150 price hike.

There is at least $40 worth of BOM cost from additional Antenna, baseband Modem and other RF Related Component. And it is not only Qualcomm which collect royalty on LTE, Ericsson, Nokia, ZTE and many others all collect royalty.

I do remember the royalty fees for Non-Smartphone ( Or Devices with only Data line ) were cheaper. But together it would still easily be $30+.

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#132

Post by ksec »

tw04 wrote: post #116
telcodud wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Qualcomm has royalty caps for smartphones, tablets, and laptops: https://investor.qualcomm.com/static-files/f2a607b2-efed-424... Quote: We broadly provide per unit royalty caps that apply to certain categories of complete wireless devices, namely smartphones, tablets and laptops, which effectively provide for a maximum royalty amount per device.

Yet they keep all their licensing deals a secret so that statement means exactly nothing. That cap could be $20k for all we know. Furthermore it's negotiated per oem and at their discretion.

The Cap for Smartphone were $400.

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#133

Post by ksec »

pbalau wrote: post #75
jillesvangurp wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you under-appreciate how stupendously expensive it is to settle patent disputes. There's no question that 4G would have been useful in laptops and given that Apple sells them at a premium, even small increases in market share are very lucrative. The reason they didn't was cost and mitigating risks infringing on relevant patents. For a phone this is essential and not optional, for a laptop this isn't the case.

> I think you under-appreciate how stupendously expensive it is to settle patent disputes. I'm arguing that they already solved this issue, since they are selling so many devices with GSM modems. Unless you can provide documentation demonstrating otherwise, I am not going to believe their agreement is to use GSM modems only on iPhones and these particular models of iPads, but is to use GSM modems on whatever devices…

The royalty are based on a percentage of the Wholesale price of Laptop, and since Apple's Laptop are on the higher end, which means their royalty will be higher.

Not to mention Smartphone, Tablet, and Other devices each have different royalty rate. Which means you cant use the same terms for your iPhone and use those for your iCars.

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#134

Post by ksec »

umvi wrote: post #99
pentae wrote: post #78

The irony that Apple really hate paying that royalty but expect App developers to do the exact same. Here's a fun anecdotal story. Me and my partner both have iPhone 7+ devices and the same carrier. I get 2 bars of 4G signal and she gets none inside our apartment. She has to walk outside to take calls. I couldn't understand how this was possible but after some research I discovered that my iPhone has a Qualcomm modem…

> it sure seems crazy that they're also getting the worst modem in the world packaged inside it so Apple can save a few dollars on the cost of the unit. A few dollars? Qualcomm skins you for all you are worth. Yeah, the actual chip is few bucks more, but the support framework for that chip is mega $$$. Want to debug the modem? Looks like you need Qualcomm's proprietary debug tool QXDM! That'll be $25K per year per se…

>A few dollars? Qualcomm skins you for all you are worth.

And Amortised over 200M annual iPhone unit shipment? That would be less than a dollar per unit. Not to mention it is highly unlikely Apple paid anywhere close to those prices.

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#135

Post by ksec »

achow wrote: post #65
phenylene wrote: post #19

Can someone explain why Intel was having such a hard time competing with Qualcomm? What are the challenges in developing modems?

This is an eye opening read.. How Qualcomm shook down the cell phone industry for almost 20 years - We did a deep-dive into the 233-page ruling declaring Qualcomm a monopolist. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/05/how-qualcomm-sho...

Personally I suggest people do read the actual 233 page report, It is actually an easy read. I come to a vastly different conclusion to mainstream media including Ars, at least someone shares the same opinion [1] as I do.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickmoorhead/2019/01/16/if-t...

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#136

Post by ksec »

bpye wrote: post #2

This worries me. Wouldn't this leave us with Qualcomm once again the only manafacturer of cellular modems for everyone else? I somehow doubt Apple would keep supplying the Intel parts to any other OEMs.

>Wouldn't this leave us with Qualcomm once again the only manafacturer of cellular modems for everyone else?

Does it matter?

1. Intel aren't selling their modem to anyone else anyway.

2. MediaTek Still supplies Discrete Modem.

3. Apple, Huawei, Samsung are already 50%+ of the market.

With Xiaomi, BBK ( Vivo OnePlus Oppo ) going to have their own / shared Modem solution in a few years time. Which combined to ~20% market. There isn't that much of a market left for players other than Qualcomm and Mediatek.

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#137

Post by ubermonkey »

freehunter wrote: post #97
tw04 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a combination of what surface you have it sitting on and which case you use (if any).

And ambient temperature and air movement. Anything that impacts heat dissipation. I was in Phoenix AZ last week when it was 115F and my phone’s hotspot shut down because the phone got too hot.

You were outside? I mean...

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#138

Post by freehunter »

ubermonkey wrote: post #137
freehunter wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And ambient temperature and air movement. Anything that impacts heat dissipation. I was in Phoenix AZ last week when it was 115F and my phone’s hotspot shut down because the phone got too hot.

You were outside? I mean...

Not exactly outside, but in a building without air conditioning yes.

Yes it was awful.

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#139

Post by 345218435 »

ccozan wrote: post #44
tus88 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the challenges in developing modems? Miniaturized, high frequency, low-power, high bandwidth, radio modems to be exact - supporting multiple complex protocols. In real-time. Meaning it is all done in hardware, although firmware does some management stuff. It's about as hard as silicon engineering gets.

There is more happening in the firmware that you can believe!! ( Disclaimer: I used to work there, could give more details, but NDA )

every now and then i see somebody claiming to know more and hinting at deeper things going on with mobile modems, basebands, gsm.

then they can‘t say anything because of nda. or the gsm standard manual costs hundreds of dollars.

my tin foil hat is glowing, i‘m telling you. we already know that gsm encryption is a joke. i don‘t want to imagine what‘s going on inside all those closed-source baseband firmwares. it creeps me out.

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