Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth • Hacker News Board

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#181

Post by goatinaboat » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 8:55 PM UTC

bcyn wrote: post #104

logifail wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when someone pays you more, they respect you more The counter-example to that could be that once you're senior enough, you are never 100% on vacation. If enough goes wrong, you will get called back to work.

That has nothing to do with seniority, it's 100% about how you draw personal boundaries between work hours and personal hours. You can make it clear that you will be completely unplugged during vacation.

You can make it clear that you will be completely unplugged during vacation.

To get to that level you will need to go through levels where you can’t do that without jeopardising further promotions.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#182

Post by tracker1 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 8:56 PM UTC

logifail wrote: post #86

chadash wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Partially because I enjoy learning and growing my technical skills, partially because I want to move into more leadership roles, but a huge part of it is because I know that if I'm good, I will be paid a massive premium for it." And it's one of the unfair things in life that jobs that pay more often get other benefits as well. Making $40k/year? Chances are you get 2 weeks vacation, inflexible work hours, inferior…

> when someone pays you more, they respect you more The counter-example to that could be that once you're senior enough, you are never 100% on vacation. If enough goes wrong, you will get called back to work.

I go on road trips... I'm largely out of range of decent reception on the road.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#183

Post by git-pull » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 8:57 PM UTC

Don't give coding quizzes if they can provide better evidence of their ability.

It's unfair in the least, rude at the worst to pigeon-hole "senior" programmers into scenarios / pop quizzes.

Let them show off recent personal projects. They'll probably have no problem spending a weekend hacking on something they're passionate about.

Be a serious employer:

Convince the best programmers (whatever that means) why they should reorganize their life around your business:

- Pension plans / job security are nice. It's a good motivator to know that there will be an annuity when they're 60 / 65 and would rather spend time with their family.

- Union contract (or something comparable) or a labor system with robust employee rights and unemployment insurance. It's pretty unfair in the US with at-will employment.

- Have strong financials. Be a business that'll be around in 10 years. Can your business keep paying employees if it's in the red for a year?

If you don't offer the above: Why feel deserving of the best?

I'm being facetious on the above points: It's tech, it's a fast cycle and inherently unstable. But when orgs talk about hiring - it irks me to see the entitlement employers have when they have little investment in the welfare of employees as persons (and families)

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#184

Post by rabidrat » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 8:58 PM UTC

badpun wrote: post #144

stakhanov wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to have the stomach for that... Personally, I couldn't get any real enjoyment out of a time period where I didn't know when/where/whether I have another job lined up, and opportunities to get truly trustworthy commitments on start dates that are a significant period of time in the future are rare.

I do that all the time - like literally my CV has probably 5 or 6 gaps of varying duration (between 3 months and two years). Often, during those gaps I spend some time working on something tech related, so I put that into the gap in the CV. Even with those gaps, I'm having zero problem finding well-paying jobs. I think it's because, despite those gaps, I represent good value to the employer - I know the latest tech,…

Are you over 40 yet? It changed for me this last job hunt.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#185

Post by yxhuvud » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 8:58 PM UTC

glutamate wrote: post #94

Apparently no one is motivated by social or environmental impact

Isn't that the Product something option?

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#186

Post by tracker1 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 9:00 PM UTC

dillonmckay wrote: post #42

antoinevg wrote: post #32

Fuck that, I've been doing this for 25 years and what I want in order of importance is: 1) Pay me 2) Autonomy

I am willing to forgo #2 if #1 is high enough.

I'm willing to forgo growth if the money is high enough... but I'll be more strict on my time at the office, allowing me time to do things outside of work.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#187

Post by dredmorbius » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 9:02 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #40

bluedino wrote: post #16

Is Triplebyte paying for product placement here now? They've taken over Reddit.

Nobody pays for or gets product placement on HN. You have to make something readers find interesting. I assume that's the case with the current submission, since it hasn't been affected by moderators or by any of the below. We do sometimes place stories that we or a small number of story reviewers think the community might like. That program is described at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11662380 and the links…

This (or an abstract of it) might make a good FAQ addition:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#188

Post by davidw » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

git-pull wrote: post #183

Don't give coding quizzes if they can provide better evidence of their ability. It's unfair in the least, rude at the worst to pigeon-hole "senior" programmers into scenarios / pop quizzes. Let them show off recent personal projects. They'll probably have no problem spending a weekend hacking on something they're passionate about. Be a serious employer: Convince the best programmers (whatever that means) why they sho…

None of these things are perfect - I agree with you about quizzes and the like.

> Let them show off recent personal projects. They'll probably have no problem spending a weekend hacking on something they're passionate about.

Nope. Not spending my weekend fooling around to impress some potential employer. I'm going to spend it with my kids, riding my bike, and enjoying life.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#189

Post by dang » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 9:09 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #187

dang wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody pays for or gets product placement on HN. You have to make something readers find interesting. I assume that's the case with the current submission, since it hasn't been affected by moderators or by any of the below. We do sometimes place stories that we or a small number of story reviewers think the community might like. That program is described at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11662380 and the links…

This (or an abstract of it) might make a good FAQ addition: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html

Yes, it's probably time to add that.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#190

Post by thow_leet » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 9:12 PM UTC

I don’t think hiring managers really want to hire the best programmers. They want people they feel comfortable managing, someone who isn’t going to be challenging them. There is no risk in leaving roles open, in fact it contributes to their job security as long as there is VC money to burn. That is why the coding challenges are so popular, it communicates “here, do what I say.”