Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination • Hacker News Board

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#161

Post by tracker1 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

pmiller2 wrote: post #141

tracker1 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the market... Pacific coast is definitely skewed young. Phoenix, Houston, Austin and Atlanta will be a little older. Phoenix in particular leans a bit older, I'm 44 and average in the group I'm currently working with is within 5 years of my age. A lot of the work is more boring business oriented work, and not a lot of startups. But it's steady, there's plenty of it and it pays relatively well compared to c…

Any stats showing that those places skew older, or is that just your perception?

Just my own experience... Of course, I did read something a while ago that stated since software development began, roughly half of all software developers had less than 5 years of experience. The reflects growth and attrition in addition to youth. So definitely young people out there.

From my experience, at least half of the devs I've worked with have been within 5 years of my age (currently 44) and where I am now, and my last two positions that's been the case as well.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#162

Post by chadash » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

glenneroo wrote: post #157

chadash wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies settle all the time. It's common for insurance claims, for example. At a not-for-profit organization I'm involved with, a homeless person punched someone on the sidewalk outside their property. The victim then turned around and sued the organization, who had nothing to do with the incident except that it technically happened on their property (which is in an urban area). The president of the organization wa…

What kind of person sues a homeless person or an organization housing the homeless?

a) to be fair, this homeless person punched them in the face b) the organization does medical research, not work with the homeless. It just happens to be that the victim was walking on their property when a homeless person who was also passing by punched them in the face. The victim was indeed hurt and needed to go to the hospital. But the president of the organization felt that someone getting punched on the sidewalk (which is in an urban area... we're not talking a large property) was unfortunate, but not something his org should be responsible for. However, the insurance company didn't want to deal with the lawsuit, so they settled.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#163

Post by cortesoft » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

lonelappde wrote: post #147

cortesoft wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if the other candidates had 6 positive reviews, it makes sense.

Why? How many openings were there, and how many other applicants?

Fewer than the number of candidates that got 6 positive reviews?

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#164

Post by sandino » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 7:35 PM UTC

lonelappde wrote: post #146

sandino wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the rationale. Then again if it's just one 1 person out of 6 (including 3 other persons who gave "very positive" reviews) then maybe that one person is just being ... negative. As the modern interviewing culture (not so subtly) incentivizes them to be.

"Somewhat Positive" means No Hire, so it was 3/6.

So "somewhat positive" = "negative" actually"?

That's what I was getting at - apparently it's negativity-driven, all the way down.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#165

Post by MaxBarraclough » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 8:08 PM UTC

xiphias2 wrote: post #73

sjg007 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most old people don't learn as many new things as younger ones ... are you sure about that? I'd avoid sweeping generalizations, it does not help your argument.

As I'm getting older all my organs are working less, and my brain is slower as well (though I'm able to think just as deeply as before). At the same time I'm much more concious about spending my thinking energy, and because of my experience I'm making much more money than when I was younger _despite_ my slower thinking. Discrimination involves hate, and I definately not hate old people, just accept the facts of life…

> Discrimination involves hate

Not always, no. That would give an unworkably narrow definition.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#166

Post by tracker1 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

tracker1 wrote: post #160

t34543 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phoenix salaries are abysmal. I looked for work about 5 years ago and senior positions had an advertised range of up to 60k. I left the area, maybe it’s different now.

From my experience, most Sr Developers are 100-120k, unless it's PHP. For niche skills it can be closer to 140k. Even 5 years ago. Not sure where you were looking or your specific skillset.

According to glassdoor, the average for "Senior Software Developer" is 93k in Phoenix. So, I'm a little off. Of course, I've also seen "senior" roles requiring all of "2 years experience" with the core technology (that's 18 years old). So YMMV. Also worth noting that the cost of living here largely offsets this.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/phoenix-senior-software-d...

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#167

Post by jborichevskiy » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

vsnf wrote: post #132

Quekid5 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any published research-level evidence that FAANG interviews are high-signal? I'm no expert, but the only published research I've read on this is "Thinking, Fast and Slow", and the original researcher has recently cast doubt on his own results on that study. Regardless, the evidence there was that all that mattered was "any objectively measurable metric" -- which would mean that FAANGs are wasting a lot of ti…

>the original researcher has recently cast doubt on his own results on that study Do you have a reference for this? I'm interested in reading more.

This HN post/discussion from 2017 [0] may be of some help.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15228712

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#168

Post by zippy » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 6:23 AM UTC

pmiller2 wrote: post #142

zippy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has a history of age discrimination and losing in court, going back to the founders of the company. See Reid v Google where Brian Reid, a key developer of the tech we use, was told his ideas "were too old to matter" and that he was an "old fuddy duddy." Google fought it and lost. https://www.law.com/therecorder/almID/1202464321723/?slretur... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Reid_(computer_scientist...

Reid v. Google was settled out of court in 2012 for an undisclosed amount.

yes and no. they lost on appeal to the state supreme court on whether evidence about age bias could be used in the lawsuit.

then they settled.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#169

Post by ramblerman » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 10:40 AM UTC

erentz wrote: post #54

djhworld wrote: post #53

How does this work for the claimants, do they get ~$50,000 each (it says more than 200 people but doesn't quantify it) or do the legal costs swallow up most of that

According to Ars they get about $35k: > Of the $11 million payout in the settlement, $2.75 million will go to lawyers representing the class, Bloomberg reports. Fillekes will get an extra $10,000 as the lead plaintiff. The remaining cash works out to around $35,000 per plaintiff. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/07/google-pays-11-m...

That seems kind of low. I would assume software engineers capable of interviewing at google would be somewhat well off, and take the risk for a bigger payout.

Perhaps the law firm had final say?

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#170

Post by onemoresoop » Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 7:50 PM UTC

jaclaz wrote: post #155

onemoresoop wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very demoralizing to be realize nobody wants to hire you because you're over a certain age. So this is not about the inconvenience of wasting time with the interview but more generally about age discrimination.

I perfectly understand the issue, I work (I might say worked) in a field where - for completely different reasons - the work opportunities are scarce to non existant for senior people, but the question was more about how the sum was quantified. Being the target of discrimination (be it age, sex, race, religion, whatever) is a terrible experience, but it is not easy to determine the amount of a monetary compensation.…

I don't have an opinion about the compensation, some could argue that it is or it isn't excessive. My understanding is that the wealthier the company the less likely they are to change their bad practices when fined a small amount compared to their size.