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Apple Factory Thefts: Secret Tunnels, Hidden Crawl Spaces

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11–20 of 105 posts

Re: Apple Factory Thefts: Secret Tunnels, Hidden Crawl Spaces

#11
post #4

I wonder how many of these extraordinary leak prevention measures would be necessary if Apple manufactured their devices in the US or Europe? The temptations for the workers would be the same (big payoffs are a universal temptation), but there might be more of a cultural barrier to overcome. Also I'm fully willing to believe that US authorities would prosecute the crap out of someone stealing from Apple, whereas in C…

> The temptations for the workers would be the same (big payoffs are a universal temptation)

Big payoffs are a universal temptation, but the definition of “big” depends on your salary. The article says workers “can earn an amount equivalent to a year’s salary for stealing iPhone enclosures”; that would require more money in the U.S. or Europe.

Re: Apple Factory Thefts: Secret Tunnels, Hidden Crawl Spaces

#12
post #4

I wonder how many of these extraordinary leak prevention measures would be necessary if Apple manufactured their devices in the US or Europe? The temptations for the workers would be the same (big payoffs are a universal temptation), but there might be more of a cultural barrier to overcome. Also I'm fully willing to believe that US authorities would prosecute the crap out of someone stealing from Apple, whereas in C…

> I wonder how many of these extraordinary leak prevention measures would be necessary if Apple manufactured their devices in the US or Europe?

One of the huge economic benefits of standardized, lockable, shipping containers is that rates of products "walking away" on the dock dropped dramatically.

Shipping companies used to just expect a certain % loss from outright theft from dockworkers. Indeed it was considered to be "one of the perks of the job."

> Also I'm fully willing to believe that US authorities would prosecute the crap out of someone stealing from Apple, whereas in China the penalty seems to be that you lose your crappy sweatshop job and have to walk across the street to get a new one.

Assuming the person gets caught, or that they are worth prosecuting. Individual factory line workers, not so much. Throwing a minimum wage worker[1] in jail is a minimal deterrent giving to the potential financial upside. People higher up can just get industry black listed, the community of people making high end consumer electronics is rather very small. (The number of people working on CE is in the tens of thousands+, but the key senior engineers who "make things happen" are fewer in number, and tend to move around a lot between the big players.)

It can be even worse when a partner company leaks. If there are only two suppliers who can provide a part (not uncommon) then you cannot blacklist a supplier who leaked for very long, you'll have to come back around and do business with them again sooner or later, or just accept paying whatever price the other supplier wants to charge.

[1] A lot of electronics factory jobs are not crappy sweat shop jobs, many of the workers are trained technicians who work hand in hand with American engineers to build products. If you ever do manufacturing in China you'll run into the problem of after Chinese New Year the workers will want to bargain to come back to work, or they'll take their skills to another factory that will pay better. The idea that Chinese workers are unskilled trained drones needs to go away.

Re: Apple Factory Thefts: Secret Tunnels, Hidden Crawl Spaces

#13
post #4

I wonder how many of these extraordinary leak prevention measures would be necessary if Apple manufactured their devices in the US or Europe? The temptations for the workers would be the same (big payoffs are a universal temptation), but there might be more of a cultural barrier to overcome. Also I'm fully willing to believe that US authorities would prosecute the crap out of someone stealing from Apple, whereas in C…

> if Apple manufactured their devices in the US or Europe? Unless I wildly misunderstand something, I'm pretty sure Apple could not produce X amount of devices at Y quality + rate for Z dollars in the US or Europe.

They couldn't hoard a quarter trillion dollars while doing it. It would be a nightmare if they only had a hundred and fifty billion to tide them over until their next big thing.

Re: Apple Factory Thefts: Secret Tunnels, Hidden Crawl Spaces

#14
post #2

It's fascinating the lengths people will go to both when protecting and leaking unreleased products and manufacturing techniques. While I would do the same in Apple and Samsung's position, I am worried about the effects of durable secrecy on the sustainability of our society and markets. Markets need competition, and societies need public domain knowledge. If somehow a critical supplier is eliminated there would be n…

That knowledge is created by the company. Why should everyone have access to it? Can’t competitors create their own processes? The formula to Coca Cola is still practically a state secret, but that didn’t stop Pepsi et al from competing. Secrets of iPhone manufacturing isn’t something that should be considered worthy of the public domain. Nothing is stopping a competitor from developing their own knowledge and proces…

The question of whether knowledge is property isn't a simple one.

Practically, knowledge belongs to anyone who has it.

There may be benefits to setting up cooperative rules about how people can use it. But even in societies with capitalism-friendly approaches, there are cases where knowledge is recognized as a kind of temporary property (say, patents) and yet everyone may have access. There are reasons for that.

Secrets are a different kind of protection. You can try to keep them, and perhaps you even have incentives to do so. This creates an interesting set of incentives for others trying to find out, as well as for those who know to defect (depending on the legal framework and reach).

Re: Apple Factory Thefts: Secret Tunnels, Hidden Crawl Spaces

#15
post #9
post #4

I wonder how many of these extraordinary leak prevention measures would be necessary if Apple manufactured their devices in the US or Europe? The temptations for the workers would be the same (big payoffs are a universal temptation), but there might be more of a cultural barrier to overcome. Also I'm fully willing to believe that US authorities would prosecute the crap out of someone stealing from Apple, whereas in C…

> cultural barrier to overcome What?? > in China the penalty seems to be that you lose your crappy sweatshop job What?? Have you been to China lately?

Can you further substantiate your comment? I'm sure you have a lot more to say.

Re: Apple Factory Thefts: Secret Tunnels, Hidden Crawl Spaces

#17
post #8

> Apple’s suppliers are forbidden from referring to Apple by name or its project code names anywhere in buildings. In which buildings? Surely (at least vendor specific) codenames are necessary for basic communication. I was affected when a partner team was sidelined by an Apple contract. It was a fireable offense to say was Apple or leak it, but you could use internally to indicate that you had mandated commitments a…

is Apple was the worst kept secret at my last company. Even our contractors knew who it was.

Re: Apple Factory Thefts: Secret Tunnels, Hidden Crawl Spaces

#18
post #8

> Apple’s suppliers are forbidden from referring to Apple by name or its project code names anywhere in buildings. In which buildings? Surely (at least vendor specific) codenames are necessary for basic communication. I was affected when a partner team was sidelined by an Apple contract. It was a fireable offense to say was Apple or leak it, but you could use internally to indicate that you had mandated commitments a…

is Apple was the worst kept secret at my last company. Even our contractors knew who it was.

When you're ordering in Apple like volumes it has to be very difficult to hide.

Re: Apple Factory Thefts: Secret Tunnels, Hidden Crawl Spaces

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if Apple manufactured their devices in the US or Europe? Unless I wildly misunderstand something, I'm pretty sure Apple could not produce X amount of devices at Y quality + rate for Z dollars in the US or Europe.

They couldn't hoard a quarter trillion dollars while doing it. It would be a nightmare if they only had a hundred and fifty billion to tide them over until their next big thing.

Do you want Apple to get into the business of manufacturing specialized screws? They could but it's not their core competency. So spend money?
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