Again, with the demonizing PHP as a staid old language to stick with.
So silly, and completely incorrect, as PHP frameworks and the language itself continue to innovate and keep Up and in some cases are cutting edge.
Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth
91–100 of 408 posts
Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth
#92I wonder how many people in the survey interpret "opportunities for professional growth" as "opportunities to get rich". To me that makes the survey data more understandable. People, myself included, basically want more money for less hours (AKA work/life balance).
There is some cognitive dissonance that I can't seem to get over while reading your comment. While your statement is technically true, I just don't see it being true in the real world. Any time I have gotten a job that has paid better, it also came with more challenges and more difficulty and invariably more of a time investment(even if that means studying outside of work). Maybe I am just taking the wrong jobs...
Funny thing I found out about this recently - my country has a tax model where very small businesses (defined by revenue So this forced me to settle for a number at which I'm happy with my income and I can have a clear goal for that year - once that is achieved other things come in to play.
This seems basic and maybe it's just me but I never really had an idea of what I wanted to make, what is "enough" - I would just say yes to any opportunity that came my way which paid more and kept plowing forward - but there is a limit to how much you can do and it's hard to guess it before you reach it so I ended up pulling all nighters and working through weekends more than once. Now that I have my limit it's actually pretty easy to reach with ~210 regular work days according to my current rates for a really easygoing client - this leaves me with plenty of time for other stuff - if I find a better paying client I just work less for that year - I like this model.
Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, Sam Altman & Andressen have strong opinion on it: join rocket ships. You can also get a much higher position at a well paid job if one of the bets pays off, or if you find growth opportunities. While getting a promotion at google might take you 4 years, in a high growth startup you might jump 2 steps in 6 months.
You might, or you might go nowhere if the rocket ship falls over, which is much more likely.
Like flipping any coin. Gotta match your risk appetite with the value of the gamble.
Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth
#94Apparently no one is motivated by social or environmental impact
Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems like tricky wording used by businesses to pay people less. Tell people in your job description that you offer "opportunities for career growth" and they hear "opportunities to get rich". Then when they're actually working there you just change the meaning to some kind of title inflation or meaningless training or additional responsibilities for the same pay.
> even worse, additional responsibilities for the same pay FWIW, and I say this acutely aware that I'm of the "don't give them what you don't owe them" tribe, additional responsibilities for the same pay are how I got the broad skillset that got me to the point where I'm a principal developer with a hand in every part of our project--which is, in addition to no-complaints compensated, genuinely a lot of fun. I took o…
I couldn't agree more. Talk is cheap. Take that that extra responsibility on and prove to everyone, including yourself, that you're capable. Use the experience and knowledge as leverage with your current employer or a new one. It's a lot easier to ask for a raise or high pay showing what you have done than what you could do.
Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Taking time off between jobs is a real option for most programmers. Depending on how long you stay at each company it can even add up to a few years of time off without having obvious gaps on the resume.
You have to have the stomach for that... Personally, I couldn't get any real enjoyment out of a time period where I didn't know when/where/whether I have another job lined up, and opportunities to get truly trustworthy commitments on start dates that are a significant period of time in the future are rare.
I agree with you.
Unless you had like, a lot of money.
Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "Partially because I enjoy learning and growing my technical skills, partially because I want to move into more leadership roles, but a huge part of it is because I know that if I'm good, I will be paid a massive premium for it." And it's one of the unfair things in life that jobs that pay more often get other benefits as well. Making $40k/year? Chances are you get 2 weeks vacation, inflexible work hours, inferior…
> when someone pays you more, they respect you more The counter-example to that could be that once you're senior enough, you are never 100% on vacation. If enough goes wrong, you will get called back to work.
> If enough goes wrong, you will get called back to work.
True, but if you're good at your job, then this should be a very rare occurrence! It's still well worth the trade-off.
Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "Partially because I enjoy learning and growing my technical skills, partially because I want to move into more leadership roles, but a huge part of it is because I know that if I'm good, I will be paid a massive premium for it." And it's one of the unfair things in life that jobs that pay more often get other benefits as well. Making $40k/year? Chances are you get 2 weeks vacation, inflexible work hours, inferior…
> when someone pays you more, they respect you more The counter-example to that could be that once you're senior enough, you are never 100% on vacation. If enough goes wrong, you will get called back to work.
I give my boss/coworkers my wife's phone number when I go on vacation. I tell them you have to talk to her to get to me. I then put my phone in airplane mode 95% of the time and use it as a camera. I'll occasionally undo airplane mode to upload photos or check the internets for something, but vacation for me is usually unplugging as well.
I've yet to be called with this strategy.
Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth
#99Don’t treat developers like bricklayers. Sack any product manager or manager that does it. This is the root of all evil, radical as it may sound. There needs to be a balance between engineering and product delivery, but too much emphasis on product delivery leads to tech debt, cutting too many corners and poor tech choices. Not to mention stress and little to no job satisfaction. Give devs some time to build somethin…
in my experience many developers want to be bricklayers (not to discount bricklaying, there's an art to it, but they're focused on the individual bricks, not the other aspects of the building). They get annoyed when they're asked to think about the bigger picture and just want to focus on the code, the architecture, and whatever is new and shiny. It is largely due to these sorts of developers that we've developed all…
It's entirely possible their current job is done at their maximum effort without burning themselves out. So asking them for more isn't going to do anything long-term.
Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "Partially because I enjoy learning and growing my technical skills, partially because I want to move into more leadership roles, but a huge part of it is because I know that if I'm good, I will be paid a massive premium for it." And it's one of the unfair things in life that jobs that pay more often get other benefits as well. Making $40k/year? Chances are you get 2 weeks vacation, inflexible work hours, inferior…
> when someone pays you more, they respect you more The counter-example to that could be that once you're senior enough, you are never 100% on vacation. If enough goes wrong, you will get called back to work.
Or even nothing goes wrong suddenly. Once, I had a vacation planned for six months and had to spend the long weekend cooped up in my hotel room overseeing a complicated migration.