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The Show Horse and the Work Horse

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31–40 of 75 posts

Re: The Show Horse and the Work Horse

#31

If the goal of the renovation was to add resale value, as opposed to meal preparation value, to the home they did the correct thing. Kitchens and bathrooms are the "runway models" of real estate.

Expensive nonpractical kitchen remodels are at the top of every list I've seen of projects to avoid when looking to resale value because they usually add less resale value than they cost to do.

Re: The Show Horse and the Work Horse

#32

Not emphasized in Johnny’s post, there’s also a ton of neighborhood pushback against flea markets and such in many communities. Basically the wealthier folks don’t like the aesthetics of these things, and will argue that they’re a nuisance or crime-magnets or whatever, a thin veneer over the discomfort they have with anything that draws a low income crowd. You’ll see things like the “Sunday Farmers Market” that close…

Maybe we should work on making cities less greedy about tax revenue and instead care more about benefiting the people who live there.

You mean tax revenue that is spent to benefit the people who live there?

Re: The Show Horse and the Work Horse

#33
post #12
post #8

This parallels my favorite Mr Money Mustache article, which happens to be about work trucks[0]. There seems (to me) to be so much money ill-spent on façades. https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/04/28/what-does-your-wo...

MMM has some great content. It's a shame he doesn't put out many articles anymore.

He has a youtube channel that he started posting to regularly this year.

But yeah, unfortunately theres only so many ways you can get tell someone to not spend money.

Re: The Show Horse and the Work Horse

#34

If the goal of the renovation was to add resale value, as opposed to meal preparation value, to the home they did the correct thing. Kitchens and bathrooms are the "runway models" of real estate.

Expensive nonpractical kitchen remodels are at the top of every list I've seen of projects to avoid when looking to resale value because they usually add less resale value than they cost to do.

The emphasis there is on the expensive though.

How many really well laid out kitchens have you been in, where you have adequate prep space, and the fridge, cooker and sink are in sensible positions?

Kitchens are generally designed to look nice, not be practical unfortunately.

Re: The Show Horse and the Work Horse

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tiny rural towns manage to have libraries. Often, when they do, it is either: (1) Because of state funding specifically for rural counties, which amounts to a revenue transfer from urban counties, or (2) Because the rural town is in a county with, and deriving revenue from, a city, funding county libraries in the rural town as well as the city. Even more often, tiny rural towns don't have public libraries, and you…

In my experience most small towns big enough to have any services have a "library" that is comprised of a few rooms in the shared town hall/police/public offices building that is run by some (usually senior citizen) volunteer(s) and has a fairly poor collection of books but can get anything you want on loan as long as you don't need it that day. If they don't have a library they probably have some other "nice to have…

The parent comment would work better without (or rewording) the remark on bias.

I have lived in rural, suburban, and dense urban areas in my life (currently high density urban), and there is a bias on HN toward the idea that rural communities are unsustainable on their own and mere leeches on the city dwellers. That's likely true in some places, but not universally. Sustainable rural communities have exports of resources, housing, and/or tourism, that outweigh their cost.

As the parent comment describes, one model for remote communities is volunteers who work at the library because they care. The cost of everything is lower -- labor, food, matetials -- so what looks too expensive for a town might actually be fully sustainable.

Re: The Show Horse and the Work Horse

#36

Not emphasized in Johnny’s post, there’s also a ton of neighborhood pushback against flea markets and such in many communities. Basically the wealthier folks don’t like the aesthetics of these things, and will argue that they’re a nuisance or crime-magnets or whatever, a thin veneer over the discomfort they have with anything that draws a low income crowd. You’ll see things like the “Sunday Farmers Market” that close…

Maybe we should work on making cities less greedy about tax revenue and instead care more about benefiting the people who live there.

Why are you blaming cities for a straw man wholly invented by an HN poster?

Re: The Show Horse and the Work Horse

#37
post #27

Oh, it's worse. Some expensive houses now have a show kitchen and a work kitchen. Why would someone make counter tops from permeable stone? That's idiotic. There are stone materials like granite that are impermeable. Besides, why is marble high-status? You can get that stuff at Home Depot. My own countertops are inch thick glazed fired ceramic tiles, from the 1960s. Same material as those indestructible walls schools…

How're the grout lines? That's the complaint I've always heard from people who've had tile countertops, who are all eager to tell you how they never want them again. I tend to try to eliminate anything in the kitchen that's not smooth and am baffled by places where things aren't smooth for no good reason—any countertop edge that's not just a smooth curve makes me sad.

I'm coming around to the opinion that modern mid-quality laminate is actually the best all-around countertop material. Cheap, easy to self-install (making it yet cheaper). No maintenance. Softish, which I consider a bonus. I hate granite and other stones, having to always take great care placing anything breakable (glass, ceramic) on them. Only downside to laminate is that it signals cheap/poor, which does kinda matter when, say, selling a house. And you can't put hot stuff on it, I guess. That's about it.

Re: The Show Horse and the Work Horse

#38

Not emphasized in Johnny’s post, there’s also a ton of neighborhood pushback against flea markets and such in many communities. Basically the wealthier folks don’t like the aesthetics of these things, and will argue that they’re a nuisance or crime-magnets or whatever, a thin veneer over the discomfort they have with anything that draws a low income crowd. You’ll see things like the “Sunday Farmers Market” that close…

The city also doesn't have a way to measure the increase in tax revenue that comes from having a place to walk to that you can get food, tools, clothing, and supplies. I wish I didn't have to drive anywhere to get stuff, and if I lived near a flea market I actually wouldn't have to drive anywhere.

Why would you say that? Cities ate constantly doing studies of revenue and cost impact. Forecasting revenue and traffic changes is bread and butter stuff.

Putting flea markets in walking distant of everyone is a terrible logistical model.

Re: The Show Horse and the Work Horse

#39

What is being described here is a working multi-functional town centre - a place to walk to, make necessary purchases and hang out and even eat out. We know how to build more and more of these "town centres" - we used to find them at the centre of almost all towns. The problem is it's not something governments can do or force - it's something they allow, and don't strangle. It's waaaaay harder. It is what evolves nat…

If state governments made suburbs pay their bills and externalities out of current accounts instead of mortgaging the future and cutting up and poisoning city residents with highways, the invisible hand of free market economics would push people to live together in cities if they want to keep their highly materialistic lifestyles. As it is, people make short term optimal, long term bankrupt, and tragedy of the commons, pollution externalizing choices.

Re: The Show Horse and the Work Horse

#40
post #26

> This place [farmer's market/flea market] is a work horse. It grows small businesses from scratch without recourse to bank loans or government subsidies. It provides products and experiences that are genuinely needed in the community. And it costs almost nothing to create compared to the usual economic development model meant to induce artificial prosperity through tax holidays and subsidies for mega projects. ... >…

Why is the article assuming away the obvious solution? Tax the flea market and everybody still wins. Or leave the flea market untaxed as a public good, and raise property taxes to account for how the flea market cashlessly raises quality of life.
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