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Why Has Language Changed So Much So Fast? ‘Because Internet’

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Has Language Changed So Much So Fast? ‘Because Internet’

#41

Post by orthoxerox »

frenchy wrote: post #14
weq wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pidgeon, spoken in alot of the islands nations, is used as a bridge like language for local dialects. IMO its the first example of what this book is referring too.

The word is "pidgin", and don't think this is really a good example of that. These language features are being used by native english speakers to communicate with other native english speakers. A pidgin is not normally used to communicate between speakers of the same language. Note that some languages that are collquially refered to as pidgins, aren't (e.g. Tok Pisin).

I think Tok Pisin is referred to as a pidgin quite officially. That's what Pisin in its name is.

Re: Why Has Language Changed So Much So Fast? ‘Because Internet’

#42

Post by PunksATawnyFill »

vikramkr wrote: post #3

Its interesting- at first blush I would think that the internet would slow down language evolution by linking together communities in a way that prevents that natural genetic drift of languages between nearby towns with limited intertown travel from happening. Instead, the constraints and form of the medium has created an explosion in linguistic evolution and growth. What an exciting linguistic time to be alive!

Yes, it's so exciting to witness the growing number of people who can't spell "too."

Re: Why Has Language Changed So Much So Fast? ‘Because Internet’

#43

Post by sjcsjc »

Not terribly relevant, but about 20 years ago I noticed that a Canadian visitor to our UK home opened every conversation with the word "so". It sounded extremely strange to me, and I really didn't like it.

Now, 20 years later, I find I begin nearly every conversation with the word "so".

Re: Why Has Language Changed So Much So Fast? ‘Because Internet’

#44

Post by devchix »

Oddly enough, Lane Greene of The Economist 6 days ago argued that language by and large has not changed so fast, despite the Internet, citing the same book.

The Intelligence podcast 2019-07-17, near the 14:08 mark. https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9yc3MuYWNhc3QuY2...

I have not read the book, I'm surprised it (or maybe just its title) is involved in making two opposing cases.

Re: Why Has Language Changed So Much So Fast? ‘Because Internet’

#45

Post by alexpotato »

This brings up a larger point about culture and shared experience.

I remember being in high school in the late 90's and reading OpEds about how the internet was going to diminish varied viewpoints since we would all be getting our information from the same sources. Keep in mind: this was around the same time that there was an Internet Yellow Pages so the thought was a small selection of sites plus "global" access would lead to this phenomenon.

Flash forward to today. With Twitter, Netflix, Pandora etc etc you can create your own stream of media that is unique to you. Or you can create your own echo chamber on Facebook. I wonder what it will look like 10 years from now for teenagers from different parts of the US. Will they have any kind of shared references?

I remember reading that something on the order of 100 million people watched the finale of MAS*H. It made shared experience so easy vs today. Then I also think of the time before newspapers or radio and realize that shared experiences across millions of people is probably only a recent phenomenon. E.g. if you were from a small town in medieval Europe you probably had a totally different set of legends/stories etc from the next town over.

In other words, I'm very curious to see where these trends take us.

Re: Why Has Language Changed So Much So Fast? ‘Because Internet’

#46

Post by b0b10101 »

devchix wrote: post #44

Oddly enough, Lane Greene of The Economist 6 days ago argued that language by and large has not changed so fast, despite the Internet, citing the same book. The Intelligence podcast 2019-07-17, near the 14:08 mark. https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9yc3MuYWNhc3QuY2... I have not read the book, I'm surprised it (or maybe just its title) is involved in making two opposing cases.

I heard the same podcast and the argument is actually the same as this line from the article:

"“One type of writing hasn’t replaced the other,” McCulloch writes, taking care to emphasize that the situation between formal language and internet language isn’t zero-sum."

It's just that The Economist made this division much more explicit, and used it as the basis for their argument while the NYT relegates it to a single line at the end of the article...

Re: Why Has Language Changed So Much So Fast? ‘Because Internet’

#47

Post by malvosenior »

sjcsjc wrote: post #43

Not terribly relevant, but about 20 years ago I noticed that a Canadian visitor to our UK home opened every conversation with the word "so". It sounded extremely strange to me, and I really didn't like it. Now, 20 years later, I find I begin nearly every conversation with the word "so".

You were right 20 years ago :)

I hate it when people do this as it sounds super condescending. Literally talking down to someone like you would a small child that needed to be taught a lesson.

I think starting a thought with “So,” is some unholy mix of pseudo-California valley talk (not that valley) and upper middle class liberal arts in-speak.

Re: Why Has Language Changed So Much So Fast? ‘Because Internet’

#48

Post by yojex »

malvosenior wrote: post #47
sjcsjc wrote: post #43

Not terribly relevant, but about 20 years ago I noticed that a Canadian visitor to our UK home opened every conversation with the word "so". It sounded extremely strange to me, and I really didn't like it. Now, 20 years later, I find I begin nearly every conversation with the word "so".

You were right 20 years ago :) I hate it when people do this as it sounds super condescending. Literally talking down to someone like you would a small child that needed to be taught a lesson. I think starting a thought with “So,” is some unholy mix of pseudo-California valley talk (not that valley) and upper middle class liberal arts in-speak.

So this might seem weird, but there are many people who do not at all feel that way. I can't even begin to imagine what feels condescending about someone using "so" as a filler word.

For people with a bit of social anxiety, it can serve as an easy and comfortable lead-in to share a thought when they can't think of a better way.

Re: Why Has Language Changed So Much So Fast? ‘Because Internet’

#49

Post by [deleted] »

malvosenior wrote: post #47
sjcsjc wrote: post #43

Not terribly relevant, but about 20 years ago I noticed that a Canadian visitor to our UK home opened every conversation with the word "so". It sounded extremely strange to me, and I really didn't like it. Now, 20 years later, I find I begin nearly every conversation with the word "so".

You were right 20 years ago :) I hate it when people do this as it sounds super condescending. Literally talking down to someone like you would a small child that needed to be taught a lesson. I think starting a thought with “So,” is some unholy mix of pseudo-California valley talk (not that valley) and upper middle class liberal arts in-speak.

[deleted]

Re: Why Has Language Changed So Much So Fast? ‘Because Internet’

#50

Post by malvosenior »

yojex wrote: post #48
malvosenior wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were right 20 years ago :) I hate it when people do this as it sounds super condescending. Literally talking down to someone like you would a small child that needed to be taught a lesson. I think starting a thought with “So,” is some unholy mix of pseudo-California valley talk (not that valley) and upper middle class liberal arts in-speak.

So this might seem weird, but there are many people who do not at all feel that way. I can't even begin to imagine what feels condescending about someone using "so" as a filler word. For people with a bit of social anxiety, it can serve as an easy and comfortable lead-in to share a thought when they can't think of a better way.

I think if you read your reply with and without the “so”, you’ll see what I mean.

Your second paragraph is probably one of the reasons people do it but it’s also the reason it come off passive aggressive, which when disagreeing with someone sounds condescending.

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