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China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

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Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#61

Post by xsdf »

hart_russell wrote: post #8

There's a lot of negative things that can be said about president Trump, but I for one am glad he's taken economic action against China. It seems like most Nations have resigned themselves to let China become the preeminent super power, which is very troubling to me; to let a nation with legitimate concentration camps, prisoner organ harvesting, and a general lack of moral compass become the most powerful country in…

Trump does not object to this. From the article:

> Meanwhile, U.S. President Trump said Monday that Chinese leader Xi Jinping had acted responsibly in his handling of the Hong Kong protests, which Mr. Trump described as “relatively nonviolent.”

> “He has allowed that to go on for a long time,” Mr. Trump said of Mr. Xi.

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#62

Post by mirimir »

caust1c wrote: post #6
vkou wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's pretty surreal watching this conflict play out. I'm still shocked this is happening on the international stage and other nations are unwilling to take sides in the conflict. Are you equally shocked that other nations are unwilling to take sides in the various political conflicts that we've lived through in the past decade in the United States? Generally, it's prudent, in the geopolitical arena, for nation stat…

Fair enough. I'm very curious what will happen in the coming weeks. I hope both nations come to a peaceful agreement to allow for continued autonomy in Hong Kong.

Which "both nations"?

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#63

Post by mirimir »

Qworg wrote: post #9
vkou wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's pretty surreal watching this conflict play out. I'm still shocked this is happening on the international stage and other nations are unwilling to take sides in the conflict. Are you equally shocked that other nations are unwilling to take sides in the various political conflicts that we've lived through in the past decade in the United States? Generally, it's prudent, in the geopolitical arena, for nation stat…

I would disagree that our on street political conflicts are at the same level with internal citizens. We don't have protests at the same scale, nor organized crime being hired to beat people.

I presume that you mean the Triads?

> The white-clad activists are suspected to be linked to local organized crime gangs known as triads that operate in the villages on Hong Kong’s more remote fringes, a Hong Kong Democratic Party official told The Wall Street Journal.

I gather that the Triads have had a long and complex relationship with Chinese governments. Going back centuries. So I think that there's more to it than hiring criminals. But I'm not clear just what it is.

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#64

Post by underthebus »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #57
underthebus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Look you’re just repeating the same nonsense they are. I am describing the historical reality. I think the point of HN is to be able to do that without receiving insults in return. > They are two separate countries regardless of what either sides political claims. They are of course are de facto separate states. This does not change a thing to my previous comment. 'China' is made of the mainland and Taiwan, like 'G…

> I am describing the historical reality. No you’re really not. The PRC and the ROC are two separate countries with (extremely large border disputes). Everything else is just propaganda. There is a landed region vaguely referred to as “China” made up of land that one time or another contained the mainland as well as Taiwan. That region is not a “country” today and is definitely not represented by either the PRC or th…

Historical reality cannot be dismissed as 'nonsense'.

> I have no idea what this refers to.

You are arguing on a topic you obviously know very little about and that you don't understand, judging by your nebulous comments. And you're doing it in a very dismissive and rather rude way.

I would suggest you take a step back.

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#65

Post by 444e »

hker wrote: post #60
underthebus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patriotism and nationalism are strong in China and this is not because of the government. In fact the government is an expression of this, not the cause. China was attacked, invaded, humiliated from the end of the 18th century until 1945. This is what created a reaction that led to the collapse of imperial rule and to the rise of the modern parties (Nationalists and Communists). The communist government did manage to…

> Patriotism and nationalism are strong in China and this is not because of the government. In fact the government is an expression of this, not the cause. > China was attacked, invaded, humiliated from the end of the 18th century until 1945. This is what created a reaction that led to the collapse of imperial rule and to the rise of the modern parties (Nationalists and Communists). For a discussion of the birth of n…

after 1976, china lost its legitimacy and began to rely on nationalism to get support

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#66

Post by mnm1 »

hker wrote: post #60
underthebus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patriotism and nationalism are strong in China and this is not because of the government. In fact the government is an expression of this, not the cause. China was attacked, invaded, humiliated from the end of the 18th century until 1945. This is what created a reaction that led to the collapse of imperial rule and to the rise of the modern parties (Nationalists and Communists). The communist government did manage to…

> Patriotism and nationalism are strong in China and this is not because of the government. In fact the government is an expression of this, not the cause. > China was attacked, invaded, humiliated from the end of the 18th century until 1945. This is what created a reaction that led to the collapse of imperial rule and to the rise of the modern parties (Nationalists and Communists). For a discussion of the birth of n…

Sounds like pretty much the exact same story every idiot communist government the world has ever seen has spun to get and keep their power. And the idiot masses keep falling for it in China and elsewhere. It seems it's an easy story to pander to the unthinking masses regardless of culture. Almost a universal one. How basic is human nature and the stupidity of the masses never ceases to amaze.

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#67

Post by CogitoCogito »

underthebus wrote: post #64
CogitoCogito wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am describing the historical reality. No you’re really not. The PRC and the ROC are two separate countries with (extremely large border disputes). Everything else is just propaganda. There is a landed region vaguely referred to as “China” made up of land that one time or another contained the mainland as well as Taiwan. That region is not a “country” today and is definitely not represented by either the PRC or th…

Historical reality cannot be dismissed as 'nonsense'. > I have no idea what this refers to. You are arguing on a topic you obviously know very little about and that you don't understand, judging by your nebulous comments. And you're doing it in a very dismissive and rather rude way. I would suggest you take a step back.

> Historical reality cannot be dismissed as 'nonsense'.

You clearly didn't read my posts. Your "historical reality" is simply a delusion.

> You are arguing on a topic you obviously know very little about and that you don't understand, judging by your nebulous comments. And you're doing it in a very dismissive and rather rude way.

As I demonstrated in my comments, I in fact know quite a bit about this topic. As far as I can tell from this thread, I know more about it than you do. So if you'd like to elucidate me about your post, feel free. If not that's alright. But you shouldn't take your inability to explain yourself as some kind of a badge of honor.

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#68

Post by mnm1 »

caust1c wrote: post #4

It's pretty surreal watching this conflict play out. I'm still shocked this is happening on the international stage and other nations are unwilling to take sides in the conflict. I wonder what happens when the tension comes to a precipice and China sends in security forces to "maintain the peace". I hope for Hong Kong and the global economy's sake, it doesn't come to that. Although it seems like that's exactly what t…

Given other nations' track record in places like Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and other places in Asia, thank fucking god they're not taking sides, especially the insane US. The last thing we need is another unwinnable, stupid, pseudo war based on bullshit and lies. If the Chinese wise up and decide to get rid of the commies themselves, great! But it shouldn't be up to other countries to interfere and fuck things up yet again because they are only interested in their own agenda, especially the madmen leading the US.

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#69

Post by reeves23423 »

underthebus wrote: post #26
lostlogin wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Public opinion will demand it. In this scenario, is there public opinion that isn’t faked?

That's not knowing China. There is a public opinion and a strong one on these issues. It's not faked. As mentioned Chinese nationalism is what created today's China, not the other way round. The very existence of Hong Kong as a British colony is partly responsible for today's China.

When the govt punishes people if they speak against it how do you know what the realpublic opinion is ?

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#70

Post by La-ang »

caust1c wrote: post #4

It's pretty surreal watching this conflict play out. I'm still shocked this is happening on the international stage and other nations are unwilling to take sides in the conflict. I wonder what happens when the tension comes to a precipice and China sends in security forces to "maintain the peace". I hope for Hong Kong and the global economy's sake, it doesn't come to that. Although it seems like that's exactly what t…

That's something to worry about. The mayhem will give China a card to play in getting deeply involved, and a scenario where the US will again get poetical as in with Taiwan. Picture Trump again claiming "support for the Hong Kong people" just to revive his image and annoy Xi, while intensifying trade talks. We can see here the cons of decentralisation to such an anarchy; there is no common ground and whether it's a peaceful march or sheer destruction of public property, China will all put it under the same umbrella.
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