Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination • Hacker News Board

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#111

Post by sjg007 » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 8:59 PM UTC

rikroots wrote: post #68

xiphias2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great, that you got to interview stage. What I mostly found that most discrimination happens before someone gets to the interview phase, which makes sense, as it makes interviewing cheaper. Most old people don't learn as many new things as younger ones, which makes it harder for older people who do to get the chance to prove themselves.

Not my experience. I've learned how to tweak my resume to a job spec while at the same time not giving an impression of my age (getting a degree with the Open University in my 40s really helps with that). It's at the face to face interview stage that the wheels tend to fall off my cart - nothing I could prove as 'ageist' behaviour, more like they're disappointed in me (or discounting me) before we sit down to chat? "…

I've seen plenty of mid-life career changers.. some to doctors even and they all have been successful. I agree ageist and short sighted.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#112

Post by atemerev » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

Anecdotal: was recently trying to apply to one of Google’s engineering positions in Zürich (I already tried to do that 7 years ago, did not pass the interview, now I think I am better equipped) Got a referral from one of my Googler friends.

In 2 days, I’ve got a very dismissive letter from Google, which amounted to “we decided that your profile and experience is no match for this position — and by the way, don’t bother applying to other similar positions at other Google offices. Case closed”.

My CV only got better since my last interview at Google, and while I didn’t pass it with flying colors, it wasn’t completely bad, too. I wonder if my current age played the part. Meanwhile, at Google jobs site, there were many positions marked as “fresh alumni of 2019 only” — perhaps that’s their perfect target.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#113

Post by cortesoft » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 9:06 PM UTC

sandino wrote: post #76

typon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recruiter told me I had 3 really positive reviews and 2 somewhat positive and 1 negative review. It's usually more feedback than I expect from companies but it was good to hear. It also matched with my expectations knowing how the interview went. She apparently took it to another hiring committee and they said no as well.

The recruiter told me I had 3 really positive reviews and 2 somewhat positive and 1 negative review. And apparently at Google - the negatives carry the day.

Well, if the other candidates had 6 positive reviews, it makes sense.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#114

Post by gregfjohnson » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 9:06 PM UTC

52-6F-62 wrote: post #91

gregfjohnson wrote: post #21

Tangentially related: I just turned 65, and am continuing to immensely enjoy programming. Current job involves embedded digital signal processing in medical devices. My family came up with a new name for my category of programmers: the gerihacktric demographic.. :-) I have interviewed with Alphabet twice, no offers. One time apparently it was a close call.. It would be fun to be the all-time record holder for oldest…

Excellent! Any resource suggestions for a digital signal processing novice? More interested on the musical end, but also in general.

Here is an excellent resource:

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/

The first online book linked from the author's homepage is:

MATHEMATICS OF THE DISCRETE FOURIER TRANSFORM (DFT) WITH AUDIO APPLICATIONS SECOND EDITION

IMHO the author does a brilliant job of presenting the mathematics with rigor, but with accessible "on-ramps" via examples.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#115

Post by dangerboysteve » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 9:08 PM UTC

$38,500 per person assuming 30% fee going to lawyers. Seems kind of low.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#116

Post by binthere » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 9:12 PM UTC

xiphias2 wrote: post #42

gregfjohnson wrote: post #21

Tangentially related: I just turned 65, and am continuing to immensely enjoy programming. Current job involves embedded digital signal processing in medical devices. My family came up with a new name for my category of programmers: the gerihacktric demographic.. :-) I have interviewed with Alphabet twice, no offers. One time apparently it was a close call.. It would be fun to be the all-time record holder for oldest…

It's great, that you got to interview stage. What I mostly found that most discrimination happens before someone gets to the interview phase, which makes sense, as it makes interviewing cheaper. Most old people don't learn as many new things as younger ones, which makes it harder for older people who do to get the chance to prove themselves.

You are the proof that there is age discrimination in interviews. If you are in tech there's a high chance you've been on the interviewer side and you already gave your opinion based on this bias.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#117

Post by jayd16 » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 9:14 PM UTC

mcguire wrote: post #58

" Instead, the company argues that the members of the class-action suit failed to demonstrate technical prowess... " Yes, it's a widely known fact that people over the age of 27 lose a year's worth of "technical prowess" for every year they live. By the time someone is 50, they're barely capable of operating a spoon.

Google's screeners always ask theoretical algorithm questions. I've failed a couple because I have an industry taught agile mindset of "good enough", not the fresh out of college pure optimization mindset they're looking for. I realize two days later, "oh they wanted that look ahead optimization grep uses" or some such thing.

"Prowess" isn't the word I would use but I could easily see how Google can turn away good programmers for technical reasons.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#118

Post by howard941 » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 9:15 PM UTC

gregfjohnson wrote: post #114

52-6F-62 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent! Any resource suggestions for a digital signal processing novice? More interested on the musical end, but also in general.

Here is an excellent resource: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/ The first online book linked from the author's homepage is: MATHEMATICS OF THE DISCRETE FOURIER TRANSFORM (DFT) WITH AUDIO APPLICATIONS SECOND EDITION IMHO the author does a brilliant job of presenting the mathematics with rigor, but with accessible "on-ramps" via examples.

Wow. In all seriousness I regret I have only one up arrow to give for this guy's online stuff.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#119

Post by jayd16 » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 9:16 PM UTC

atemerev wrote: post #112

Anecdotal: was recently trying to apply to one of Google’s engineering positions in Zürich (I already tried to do that 7 years ago, did not pass the interview, now I think I am better equipped) Got a referral from one of my Googler friends. In 2 days, I’ve got a very dismissive letter from Google, which amounted to “we decided that your profile and experience is no match for this position — and by the way, don’t both…

Or, you know, they just have entry level positions and don't want to pay for a senior dev.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#120

Post by gregfjohnson » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 9:16 PM UTC

xiphias2 wrote: post #42

gregfjohnson wrote: post #21

Tangentially related: I just turned 65, and am continuing to immensely enjoy programming. Current job involves embedded digital signal processing in medical devices. My family came up with a new name for my category of programmers: the gerihacktric demographic.. :-) I have interviewed with Alphabet twice, no offers. One time apparently it was a close call.. It would be fun to be the all-time record holder for oldest…

It's great, that you got to interview stage. What I mostly found that most discrimination happens before someone gets to the interview phase, which makes sense, as it makes interviewing cheaper. Most old people don't learn as many new things as younger ones, which makes it harder for older people who do to get the chance to prove themselves.

From what I've seen, some people are passionate voracious learners. This does not correlate with age. However, it may be harder to find these (very valuable) people among a younger population than an older one. If someone has slowed down in the area of constant learning, their existing knowledge may be more recent if they are younger. The "constant learner" signal stands out more prominently for older developers.