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Microsoft is investing $1B in OpenAI

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Re: Microsoft is investing $1B in OpenAI

#361

Post by gonehome »

StreamBright wrote: post #353
gonehome wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warp drives travel faster than the speed of light? That's what I meant by not possible. Ignoring that if we saw miniature warp drives everywhere around us in nature then yes I would be more confident they were possible.

I see your point I just wanted to point out that there are different challenges for us than for nature. Flying like a bird has dirrent challanges than flying with a Boeing 747, even though these challenges might share a subset of the physics, like the Bernoulli’s principle.

Yep - I think that's fair and a good analogy.

Similarly to how human airplanes don't flap their wings like birds, there will probably be implementation differences that make sense but share the underlying principles. Particularly since the artificial version isn't constrained by things biology needs to handle.

Re: Microsoft is investing $1B in OpenAI

#362

Post by stevenhuang »

malux85 wrote: post #350
benl wrote: post #346

If you strip out the AGI hype then this just sounds like OpenAI is now moving to monetizing their tech. This makes sense for them but probably not for the philanthropists who originally backed them. Sadly for them, AGI is metaphysically impossible - this will be realized eventually but a lot of waste and possibly harm will happen first. We are not just super sophisticated machines, so the fact that we can think doesn…

I'm a believer that we are super sophisticated molecular machines, embodied in matter. Can you provide some material that supports your claim that AGI is metaphysically impossible - I always like hearing from people with views opposite to myself.

I'm skeptical his claims are substantive. As with all things philosophy there are competing and supporting theories, and with this age-old question of AGI I doubt the field is as conclusive on the matter as he believes.

Re: Microsoft is investing $1B in OpenAI

#363

Post by pron »

gonehome wrote: post #295
pron wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, I was talking the language, not the work. It makes sense to study AI as it does many other subjects, but we don't know that it will "have consequences that dwarf everything else" because we don't know what it will be able to do and when (we think that it could but so could, say, a supervirus, or climate change, or the return of fascism). People hang all sort of dreams on AI precisely because of that. Th…

I can understand your point about the language, but I guess I think it's reasonable to set the goal for what you actually want and work towards it. It may turn out to be unattainable, but I think generally you need to at least set it as the goal. It also seems less clear to me that they are close or far from it (I don't think it's on the same level as warp drive). I don't know about the god thing you mention and the…

I think discussions of AI safety at this stage -- when we're already having problems with what passes for AI these days that we're not handling well at all -- is a bit silly, but I don't have something particularly intelligent to say on the matter, and neither, it seems, does anyone else, except maybe for this article that shows that the AGI paranoia (as opposed to the real threats from "AI" we're already facing, like YouTube's recommendation engine) may be a result of a point of view peculiar to Silicon Valley culture: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tedchiang/the-real-dang...

Re: Microsoft is investing $1B in OpenAI

#364

Post by sailingparrot »

bhouston wrote: post #68

Hmmm.... it reads to me that someone has co-opted an open standard. How much of this is really an investment and how much is an in-kind contribution of Azure resources? Also this sounds dangerous: "exclusive cloud provider". When an OpenAI group starts to make exclusively partnerships with one vendor, I wonder how "Open" it is. I can not imagine Khronos Group, which runs similarly named OpenGL, etc having a "exclusiv…

When was OpenAI an open standard? Comparing OpenAI to OpenGL makes zero sense.

Re: Microsoft is investing $1B in OpenAI

#365

Post by cosmodisk »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #132
codelemur wrote: post #13

Despite all the negativity in replies, I try to remain optimistic that this investment in AGI-related research is going to be a net positive. Congrats to the team, and break a leg!

I agree. We've not gone back to having well funded research facilities like this one since Bell Labs. Those were amazing days where we saw a lot of amazing breakthroughs. I wish companies like Microsoft and the rest would invest in external research institutes more.

I often think that if I were a billionaire,I'd rather spend hundreds of millions on some cool R&D projects rather than having some 100 meter boat that one uses a only a few times a year. I could at least walk around in 20 or so years and say "I funded this" rather than pointing at a rusting boat nobody will ever care about.

Re: Microsoft is investing $1B in OpenAI

#366

Post by benl »

stevenhuang wrote: post #362
malux85 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a believer that we are super sophisticated molecular machines, embodied in matter. Can you provide some material that supports your claim that AGI is metaphysically impossible - I always like hearing from people with views opposite to myself.

I'm skeptical his claims are substantive. As with all things philosophy there are competing and supporting theories, and with this age-old question of AGI I doubt the field is as conclusive on the matter as he believes.

I used to be a believer of the theory that we are super sophisticated machines. When I read some of the philosophy on the subject I changed my mind. I now believe there must be some immaterial component to our minds.

There’s a lot to read out there on this subject, but I found expositions of the philosophy of Aristotle and Aquinas to be the clearest and most convincing for me. Lots of different books and articles exist on them both - pick one that sounds like it suits your style of understanding.

Re: Microsoft is investing $1B in OpenAI

#367

Post by alluro2 »

craigsmansion wrote: post #343
chillacy wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’re saying.. it comes down to whether you believe AGI is achievable within our lifetime? Or even worth contributing to at all even. I think the parent has made their position pretty clear through their employment choices, that’s a level of skin in the game that naysayers don’t really have.

> I think the parent has made their position pretty clear through their employment choices, Their employer has just received a 1 billion dollar cash investment to futz around with computers. I don't think the employment choice is some sort of personal sacrifice here. The level of skin here is a cushy guaranteed job for years to come until the next AI-winter hits, likely set into motion by such very claims of "AGI" be…

Agreed. By the way, does anyone want to try my new VR tech? It will change everything forever!

Re: Microsoft is investing $1B in OpenAI

#369

Post by pron »

ryanmercer wrote: post #317
pron wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It comes down to whether you believe AGI is achievable. No, it does not. I very much believe AI (or AGI, as you call it) is achievable, but may I remind you that some years after the invention of neural networks, Norbert Wiener, one of the greatest minds of his generations, said that the secret of intelligence would be unlocked within five years, and Alan Turing -- a component of your very own post-pre-AGI era's AG…

>I can't tell if you're serious, but assuming you are, I assume he is, given he is Greg Brockman the CTO and a co-founder. I know Sam Altman is similarly optimistic, having told me on multiple occasions something along the lines of 'I can't focus on anything else right now' which in context I very much took as 'this presently consumes my waking thoughts and I only have time for it'. This sort of drive is great, but I…

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tedchiang/the-real-dang...

Re: Microsoft is investing $1B in OpenAI

#370

Post by benl »

noir_lord wrote: post #360
benl wrote: post #346

If you strip out the AGI hype then this just sounds like OpenAI is now moving to monetizing their tech. This makes sense for them but probably not for the philanthropists who originally backed them. Sadly for them, AGI is metaphysically impossible - this will be realized eventually but a lot of waste and possibly harm will happen first. We are not just super sophisticated machines, so the fact that we can think doesn…

> But philosophy does - and it tells us you can’t get mind from matter, no matter what configuration you put it in. Curious - do you think humans have mind? because if so we are very much matter and if not well that's an interesting thought as well.

That’s right - we have minds therefore we must be more than just matter.

I used to think the opposite, but reading the philosophy on the subject changed my mind. There are a lot of different takes on the topic, but what most added up for me was the philosophy of Aristotle and Aquinas. There are many great expositions of their work out there.

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