Live data from Hacker News

Study: Immigrants and their kids founded 45% of U.S. Fortune 500 companies

axios.com

121–130 of 156 posts

Re: Study: Immigrants and their kids founded 45% of U.S. Fortune 500 companies

#121

Definitely some selection bias. Many wealthy people in the US are immigrants. Also, many wealthy people probably choose to immigrate to the US to start their business because of lower barriers to entry. EDIT: Also, if this [1] is correct, 13.7% of people in the US are immigrants. So how many people are immigrants OR first-gen? And since ANY of the founders can be immigrants/first-gen, more founders means higher likel…

I would not call H1B a "low entry barrier"..

H1B is not for entrepreneurs (until recently, ~2011). Not to say the other visa types are easy, e.g. E2 and EB5

Re: Study: Immigrants and their kids founded 45% of U.S. Fortune 500 companies

#122
Great article! It's worth mentioning that the founders of most of the immigrant-founded companies are ostensibly white. I can't think of any of these companies that has a non-white founder. I only say this because articles such as these are wont to use the data as support for mass immigration, which usually is non-whites into white countries.

Re: Study: Immigrants and their kids founded 45% of U.S. Fortune 500 companies

#123
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But do you suspect the methodology, the results, or the conclusion were "faked" or inaccurate? Selective definitions were used. They weren't hidden for anyone willing to look into the details, but if this was a political move (I'm not saying it was, but if it was) then the people who did it would know full well that the headline would have far more penetration than any statistical critique with how terms were define…

Forming an opinion based solely on the title or the (perceived) author's bias without ever reading the content is a problem no matter where you stand. Which is why I asked OP to help me understand their reasoning behind discrediting the author, suggesting a conclusion but not even attempting to discuss the content. How is this different from anybody responding to a comment solely by attacking the person who wrote it…

>Forming an opinion based solely on the title or the (perceived) author's bias without ever reading the content is a problem no matter where you stand.

First impressions matter. A job posting for an elite JavaScript ninja with 15 years of ES6 experience is going to have the creator of the job post judged very harshly, even if no other information is viewed. Sometimes that will be wrong, but it will be right often enough to be reasonable.

As for this particular case, an analysis of how they calculated the number has already been done by other who have posted under this same article. If you feel there is a flaw in their logic, you can reply to them directly.

>How is this different from anybody responding to a comment solely by attacking the person who wrote it and their political affiliations rather than attempt to discuss the actual content?

Because it is based on both the author and the content, and the nature of the disagreement is that the content is wrong for reasons that are only incidentally related to the author.

The argument isn't 'study is bad because author is bad. The argument is 'the combination of the author's own stated goals and the creative statistical freedom taken when calculating the figure leads me to believe there is significant bias in and behind this'. There is also a known issue of political groups injecting favorable bias in the work they do.

>Would you question a reply like "Please keep in mind that this opinion came from [a member of party X] / [a supporter of cause Y] so I don't think their opinion is neutral [period]" to one of your comments or remarks?

Well, I don't think any opinion is neutral (at least on matters of politics) to begin with and would overall trust someone who recognizes their biases more than someone who doesn't, even if that is stereotypical of me.

Re: Study: Immigrants and their kids founded 45% of U.S. Fortune 500 companies

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That immigration is a positive for America. Are you seriously asking?

Clearly, yes. I thought it was coming from a different think tank.

I dunno, I guess I just thought the agenda was obvious given the "Why it matters", "between the lines" and "by the numbers" part of the article

Re: Study: Immigrants and their kids founded 45% of U.S. Fortune 500 companies

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because putting a certain race in literal concentration camps isn’t fascism but just different opinions.

People losing their minds over this would sound a lot more sincere and principled if they'd been even half as upset about Obama placing kids in actual cages with a much higher per capita death rate. Now they just sound like ideologues grinding a political axe. But maybe that's just my differing opinion.

The policy before Trump was to hold children who arrive unaccompanied at the border and find their family to reunite them with. The policy under Trump is a zero-tolerance separate all children from their parents policy. Trump HHS currently cannot account for around 6000 children they have separated. This is new. The new rules around immigration seem to be focused around overwhelming the system's capacity for processing people fairly and with proper oversight.

Obama's immigration policies were criticised by liberals (as were many other aspects of his presidency, or are we going to rewrite history to state that OWS was just a public Obama fan-club gathering?). They were even outed by left-leaning publications and subject to a documentary on PBS.

Back on the topic of the comment you shifted away from - "deporting" in US-speak means sending people to a private prison where detainees are effectively forced to work, but without even allowing the accused their fair time in court. At some point after that they might get sent back to another country.

Re: Study: Immigrants and their kids founded 45% of U.S. Fortune 500 companies

#127
post #31

The way they handle companies with > 1 founder is a bit weird. If there is at least one immigrant / 1st gen American it's counted in the "founded by" category. And then the 45% is taken by looking at things just at the company level. I think it would tell a clearer picture to count the total number of founders and count the percentage of people who were immigrants / 1st gen americans. Then, to give context, you would…

Agreed. It makes me think they might have used that selection criteria specifically in order to provide an out-sized visualization about the impact of immigration on the founding of US companies. Seeing the actual numbers on the the founder-level would be more informative and probably also let me shed my doubts about whether or not those who created the study were doing it a biased manner. I also think it's weird tha…

Amazon? You mean Apple?

Re: Study: Immigrants and their kids founded 45% of U.S. Fortune 500 companies

#128
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember one of the first time the company I work for had a "First gen in tech" event. We had a funny discussion about how, technically, I was part of the target audience. I'm as much of a white western dude as they come, but I'm technically on a green card, my parents are not in the US, I'm the first of my family to be in tech. Checks all the boxes. In practice I'm definitely NOT the kind of person these things ar…

That's fine, you're still a valid part of the immigration discussion. For example as an American when I go to Canada I get more hassle than when I'm in Europe. If anything I'd assume it would be easier to go between Canada and the U.S. which are a lot more culturally similar than say Germany and France.

Fascinating. Ill admit I've never traveled to Europe. What part is easier? My wife (an American citizen) has gone to Canada fairly frequently and clearing the custom is a quick formality. My narrow minded self can only imagine that short of not having a customs at all, it can't get a whole lot easier.

Re: Study: Immigrants and their kids founded 45% of U.S. Fortune 500 companies

#129

Definitely some selection bias. Many wealthy people in the US are immigrants. Also, many wealthy people probably choose to immigrate to the US to start their business because of lower barriers to entry. EDIT: Also, if this [1] is correct, 13.7% of people in the US are immigrants. So how many people are immigrants OR first-gen? And since ANY of the founders can be immigrants/first-gen, more founders means higher likel…

"Many wealthy people in the US are immigrants. Also, many wealthy people probably choose to immigrate to the US to start their business because of lower barriers to entry."

The data shows the opposite effect: immigrants usually come to this country with lower levels of wealth and income, but catch up within 20 years because of higher saving rates and educational attainment:

https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/regional-economist/s...

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v68n1/68n1p31.html

If there's a selection bias, it's likely in other characteristics. Immigration selects for risk-taking, for example, because moving to another country is inherently a risk, and it also selects for people willing to work hard without a safety net. Both of these are characteristics shared with successful entrepreneurs.

Re: Study: Immigrants and their kids founded 45% of U.S. Fortune 500 companies

#130

Definitely some selection bias. Many wealthy people in the US are immigrants. Also, many wealthy people probably choose to immigrate to the US to start their business because of lower barriers to entry. EDIT: Also, if this [1] is correct, 13.7% of people in the US are immigrants. So how many people are immigrants OR first-gen? And since ANY of the founders can be immigrants/first-gen, more founders means higher likel…

There is selection bias (and other issues) not only in this study, but in which stories are promoted as well. E.g. this story presenting immigration positively gets to stay on the front page for some time, while a (admittedly anecdotal) story of Indian immigrants showing racist in-group preference at Intel (https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/07/19/korean-american-softw...) is flagged and killed.
Post reply on HN