Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Animals living alongside humans produce amylase, enzyme that breaks down starch

elifesciences.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 62 posts

Re: Animals living alongside humans produce amylase, enzyme that breaks down starch

#31

Post by BurningFrog »

twic wrote: post #27
BurningFrog wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until recently, everyone has lived near the border of starvation, and not had an opportunity to get obese. Since the agricultural revolution, carbs are what we have been able to mass produce, and therefore breed ourselves to greater numbers on. That it probably hasn't been the ideal diet for us is a distant secondary concern. Now that we're finally overproducing food, we actually are getting obese on the carb diet. C…

I think the Venus of Willendorf and her equally thicc cousins are, if you'll excuse the expression, ample proof that some people had an opportunity to get obese long before the agricultural revolution.

Sure. When I said "everybody" I really meant "almost everybody".

Of course, in preindustrial times, obesity was a sign of wealth, and that statue might be an ideal to strive for, made by paper thin worshippers.

Re: Animals living alongside humans produce amylase, enzyme that breaks down starch

#32

Post by weddpros »

spraak wrote: post #28
BurningFrog wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until recently, everyone has lived near the border of starvation, and not had an opportunity to get obese. Since the agricultural revolution, carbs are what we have been able to mass produce, and therefore breed ourselves to greater numbers on. That it probably hasn't been the ideal diet for us is a distant secondary concern. Now that we're finally overproducing food, we actually are getting obese on the carb diet. C…

I believe that you're missing the point. We aren't getting obese on the carb diet. We are getting obese from excess calories and dietary fat. De novo lipogenesis (producing fat from only carbs) is inefficient and uncommon. Storing carbs as body fat via de novo lipogenesis is inefficient; storing dietary fat in body fat reserves is easy and efficient.

storing dietary fat works best when you eat carbs, because then your body will run on carbs and carbs will spike your insuline to signal the body to store the fat. Also the insuline spikes and drops make you crave more carbs...

Re: Animals living alongside humans produce amylase, enzyme that breaks down starch

#33

Post by mrob »

The argument for keto/carnivorous diet does not depend on human adaptation to digesting starches. I understood it as:

* Evolution works at the level of genes, not individuals. It will select for short-term reproductive success at the expense of longevity or quality of life.

* All living things evolve to avoid being eaten (at least while they have the potential to reproduce or aid the reproduction of their kin).

* Animals primarily defend against being eaten by fleeing or fighting. These defenses can be 100% neutralized by killing the animal.

* Plants primarily defend against being eaten by producing toxins. These defenses can be neutralized by metabolism, but evolution has no incentive to select for 100% neutralization. If 100% neutralization of plant toxins is difficult then dying young with a lot of children might be a better strategy.

However, there are plants that defend with spines/shells/hiding underground, and plants that produce fruit to attract animals for seed distribution, all of which change the selection pressure for toxin production, and any food may be healthful or harmful purely as a spandrel (a byproduct of evolution of some other characteristic). There are examples of human populations maintaining good health on a wide variety of different diets, so as is usually the case with nutrition, there are no clear answers.

Re: Animals living alongside humans produce amylase, enzyme that breaks down starch

#34

Post by cageface »

mrob wrote: post #33

The argument for keto/carnivorous diet does not depend on human adaptation to digesting starches. I understood it as: * Evolution works at the level of genes, not individuals. It will select for short-term reproductive success at the expense of longevity or quality of life. * All living things evolve to avoid being eaten (at least while they have the potential to reproduce or aid the reproduction of their kin). * Ani…

These arguments are all interesting but I think most relevant is that the best nutrition science we have to date shows that a proper plant based diet is optimal for health & longevity. The plants and animals we eat now are radically different than the ones we were exposed to through most of our evolution so paleo proponents are chasing a lost world.

Re: Animals living alongside humans produce amylase, enzyme that breaks down starch

#35

Post by cageface »

BurningFrog wrote: post #26
spraak wrote: post #2

> This may suggest that our lineage has evolved specific adaptations to digest starch-rich foods, underlining the long and continuing importance of these staples in our diet This reminds me of the interest in keto dieting and the frustrating misunderstanding that carbs are the cause of excess weight, diabetes etc. If that were true, the whole world would be diabetic and obese, since everywhere has a staple carb. It's…

Until recently, everyone has lived near the border of starvation, and not had an opportunity to get obese. Since the agricultural revolution, carbs are what we have been able to mass produce, and therefore breed ourselves to greater numbers on. That it probably hasn't been the ideal diet for us is a distant secondary concern. Now that we're finally overproducing food, we actually are getting obese on the carb diet. C…

The rise of obesity in the US tracks very closely with the massive increase in cheese & chicken consumption. Sugar consumption actually plateaued years earlier.

Re: Animals living alongside humans produce amylase, enzyme that breaks down starch

#36

Post by ianai »

cageface wrote: post #34
mrob wrote: post #33

The argument for keto/carnivorous diet does not depend on human adaptation to digesting starches. I understood it as: * Evolution works at the level of genes, not individuals. It will select for short-term reproductive success at the expense of longevity or quality of life. * All living things evolve to avoid being eaten (at least while they have the potential to reproduce or aid the reproduction of their kin). * Ani…

These arguments are all interesting but I think most relevant is that the best nutrition science we have to date shows that a proper plant based diet is optimal for health & longevity. The plants and animals we eat now are radically different than the ones we were exposed to through most of our evolution so paleo proponents are chasing a lost world.

Actually, the representation of the ancestral diet being primarily meat is incorrect - outside of a few examples where there just weren’t many plants available. Largely, humans ate what they happened upon. Meat was a scarce byproduct of another predators meal. Ie we ate what the big cats left behind.

Furthermore, the ultra refined and concentrated foods we now eat didn’t exist until very recently. The amount of sugar cane needed to produce a single can of soda isn’t something any human would sit down to eat.

Edit-changed are to ate

Re: Animals living alongside humans produce amylase, enzyme that breaks down starch

#37

Post by RomanBob »

ianai wrote: post #36
cageface wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These arguments are all interesting but I think most relevant is that the best nutrition science we have to date shows that a proper plant based diet is optimal for health & longevity. The plants and animals we eat now are radically different than the ones we were exposed to through most of our evolution so paleo proponents are chasing a lost world.

Actually, the representation of the ancestral diet being primarily meat is incorrect - outside of a few examples where there just weren’t many plants available. Largely, humans ate what they happened upon. Meat was a scarce byproduct of another predators meal. Ie we ate what the big cats left behind. Furthermore, the ultra refined and concentrated foods we now eat didn’t exist until very recently. The amount of sugar…

>we ate what the big cats left behind.

humans can hunt

Re: Animals living alongside humans produce amylase, enzyme that breaks down starch

#38

Post by RomanBob »

cageface wrote: post #35
BurningFrog wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until recently, everyone has lived near the border of starvation, and not had an opportunity to get obese. Since the agricultural revolution, carbs are what we have been able to mass produce, and therefore breed ourselves to greater numbers on. That it probably hasn't been the ideal diet for us is a distant secondary concern. Now that we're finally overproducing food, we actually are getting obese on the carb diet. C…

The rise of obesity in the US tracks very closely with the massive increase in cheese & chicken consumption. Sugar consumption actually plateaued years earlier.

So if i switch to tofu and beef, i won't get fat?

Re: Animals living alongside humans produce amylase, enzyme that breaks down starch

#39

Post by gumby »

arcticbull wrote: post #24
codemac wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "we" in the sentence is homo sapiens. Neanderthals and Denisovans were not the same species as us. > "Unlike Neanderthals and Denisovans, who had only two diploid copies, [homo sapiens] carry up to 20 copies of the AMY1 gene, which produces salivary amylase. "

Doesn't that mean we've evolved to eat a lot of starch so the more natural thing for humans to eat is therefore starch, if you follow this line of reasoning? And therefore, we've "evolved beyond" the keto diet? FWIW, I do not think this is good reasoning.

I meant that I find a low fat ketogenic diet works well for me due to specific health issues of mine.

I see no reason why it might be good (or not!) for the population at large, so I laughed at people who thought it might be so based on fanciful evolutionary theories. Theories which appear to be confounded by the discoveries in the paper.

Apologies if I was too terse in my original comment.

Re: Animals living alongside humans produce amylase, enzyme that breaks down starch

#40

Post by arcticbull »

gumby wrote: post #39
arcticbull wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't that mean we've evolved to eat a lot of starch so the more natural thing for humans to eat is therefore starch, if you follow this line of reasoning? And therefore, we've "evolved beyond" the keto diet? FWIW, I do not think this is good reasoning.

I meant that I find a low fat ketogenic diet works well for me due to specific health issues of mine. I see no reason why it might be good (or not!) for the population at large, so I laughed at people who thought it might be so based on fanciful evolutionary theories. Theories which appear to be confounded by the discoveries in the paper. Apologies if I was too terse in my original comment.

I was just curious the reasoning, I feel that keto and also fasting would make the general population much healthier.
Post reply on HN