What I Know About Being Sick at Work (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: What I Know About Being Sick at Work (2018)

#31

Post by hdfbdtbcdg » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 1:07 PM UTC

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #29

hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if I can do my job from home office just as well why should I not also get that? I would not argue though. The beautiful thing about living in a free country is that I don't need to I just get another job.

> Because if I can do my job from home office just as well why should I not also get that? The usual reason not every employer is ok with remote work: if everyone does it, it damages the team. It's not unreasonable to insist employees work from the office, neither is it unreasonable to make exceptions for employees with disabilities.

It's not unreasonable for someone to find another employer...

I am pointing out that treating people differently damages teams.

Re: What I Know About Being Sick at Work (2018)

#32

Post by sokoloff » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 1:08 PM UTC

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #29

hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if I can do my job from home office just as well why should I not also get that? I would not argue though. The beautiful thing about living in a free country is that I don't need to I just get another job.

> Because if I can do my job from home office just as well why should I not also get that? The usual reason not every employer is ok with remote work: if everyone does it, it damages the team. It's not unreasonable to insist employees work from the office, neither is it unreasonable to make exceptions for employees with disabilities.

There’s another point of view that says “if it’s workable for person D who happens to have a disability, it is likely also workable for persons A-C and E-Z.”

Re: What I Know About Being Sick at Work (2018)

#33

Post by MaxBarraclough » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 1:14 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #3

bob33212 wrote: post #2

Very thoughtful author. I would like to get her thoughts on where a employeer should draw the line on staying that a disability cannot be accommodated. For example, someone who had a light sensitivity as well as PTSD may need to work in a dark quiet environment. How far does the company go to support that need?

If the company wants employment to be a success, rather than a temporary period of grudging extraction of value through pain, then they have to go as far as is necessary to accommodate the employee. The details will be different for every case, but generous work from home rules can help a lot.

Why? It's not self-evident that as far as is necessary is the correct answer here. If the costs are far outstripping the value delivered by the employee, then at the very least it's become a question of disabled rights, and not a business decision.

There's clearly a limit to the reasonable accommodations we can expect of an employer.

Re: What I Know About Being Sick at Work (2018)

#34

Post by hdfbdtbcdg » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 1:14 PM UTC

neilv wrote: post #30

hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were something possible and desirable for all then yes!

But, hypothetically, what if it's not possible? And what if the company were legally precluded from offering you more money to compensate for not being able to provide the same thing to you? Would you still feel the accommodation is unfair of the company, and want to leave the company? Or would you see it as something the organization is collectively happy to do, to be inclusive and supportive of your fellow people?…

In the past I have swallowed such arguements about desks and chairs - now I have a bad back. I won't put myself at a disadvantage again.

Regular home office is not even close to being in the same class as specific software or food or even a disabled car parking spot.

Everything is case by case of course so I can't tell you. Often I wouldn't tell you. If I felt undervalued at work I would just get another job.

Re: What I Know About Being Sick at Work (2018)

#35

Post by jchw » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 1:16 PM UTC

hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #15

rustguy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had someone with migraines needing similar accommodations. She was given her own office.

Why can't everyone get their own office? Edit I would find another job in this situation. Not being in an open office is a serious improvement in work environment.

It’s expensive and we don’t really need it. Would be nice, though.

Re: What I Know About Being Sick at Work (2018)

#36

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 1:19 PM UTC

stanski wrote: post #26

chrisseaton wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to plank while speaking, in order to motivate people to speak succinctly. Obviously disadvantages people who aren’t physically fit as they literally don’t get to contribute as much!

Sorry, just to be clear. Everyone stands around in a circle and one person drops down on the floor in a plank to talk? Maybe it's just me but I'd have a hard time taking this seriously.

[deleted]

Re: What I Know About Being Sick at Work (2018)

#37

Post by hdfbdtbcdg » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 1:20 PM UTC

jchw wrote: post #35

hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't everyone get their own office? Edit I would find another job in this situation. Not being in an open office is a serious improvement in work environment.

It’s expensive and we don’t really need it. Would be nice, though.

Well. Using headphones all day damages our hearing... We work better without constant distractions. We are pretty expensive to employ and then use at 50% potential.

Re: What I Know About Being Sick at Work (2018)

#38

Post by neilv » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 1:25 PM UTC

hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #34

neilv wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, hypothetically, what if it's not possible? And what if the company were legally precluded from offering you more money to compensate for not being able to provide the same thing to you? Would you still feel the accommodation is unfair of the company, and want to leave the company? Or would you see it as something the organization is collectively happy to do, to be inclusive and supportive of your fellow people?…

In the past I have swallowed such arguements about desks and chairs - now I have a bad back. I won't put myself at a disadvantage again. Regular home office is not even close to being in the same class as specific software or food or even a disabled car parking spot. Everything is case by case of course so I can't tell you. Often I wouldn't tell you. If I felt undervalued at work I would just get another job.

(I appreciate your comment about accommodations that should be offered to everyone, and for which it turned out one time you too needed but did not get in time. That's upsetting and should not have happened. And I understand your skepticism of when a company says something isn't possible.)

But for the hypothetical, in an HN discussion, of when it's truly not possible to offer the thing to everyone... you can't answer because maybe(?) there's some other variables involved, and/or there's an emotional component?

For example, maybe there's some additional pertinent variables besides the hypothetical as I framed it, and you suspect there are some situations in which you could logically acknowledge that the organization has no other legal option, but you would still emotionally resent the organization/situation/environment, and leave because of that?

Re: What I Know About Being Sick at Work (2018)

#39

Post by MaxBarraclough » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 1:34 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #32

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because if I can do my job from home office just as well why should I not also get that? The usual reason not every employer is ok with remote work: if everyone does it, it damages the team. It's not unreasonable to insist employees work from the office, neither is it unreasonable to make exceptions for employees with disabilities.

There’s another point of view that says “if it’s workable for person D who happens to have a disability, it is likely also workable for persons A-C and E-Z.”

With respect, you're ignoring my point.

There's value to team cohesion in having a team physically together. It won't be fatal to make an exception, and indeed it's possible run a company purely on remote working, but the point stands.

Re: What I Know About Being Sick at Work (2018)

#40

Post by 0xcde4c3db » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 1:36 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #3

bob33212 wrote: post #2

Very thoughtful author. I would like to get her thoughts on where a employeer should draw the line on staying that a disability cannot be accommodated. For example, someone who had a light sensitivity as well as PTSD may need to work in a dark quiet environment. How far does the company go to support that need?

If the company wants employment to be a success, rather than a temporary period of grudging extraction of value through pain, then they have to go as far as is necessary to accommodate the employee. The details will be different for every case, but generous work from home rules can help a lot.

> If the company wants employment to be a success, rather than a temporary period of grudging extraction of value through pain

As far as I can tell, most major employers operate like grudging extraction of value is their definition of success. Then well-meaning managers at smaller companies implement "standard practice" and are baffled when it causes problems.