Live data from Hacker News

I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

quillette.com

91–100 of 289 posts

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#91
When I was young I did agency employment for a few years between leaving school and figuring out what I wanted to do.

A lot of that was in warehouses (I also worked in greenhouses harvesting cucumbers 45C and 100% humidity, a paint factory moving 15l paint tins all day - never eaten so much or been so fit, 15l tins of bitumen are heavy to handball all day, steel plant that powder coated so hot tanks of acid and full PPE and a cardboard box factory) and almost nothing I’ve read about amazon surprises me much.

Warehouse work is often physically demanding and rote, same thing over and over again, I never had a problem with that because I’d just go on autopilot and the day would pass in a blur - never had an issue with hard work and got multiple full time offers, I’ve always been a naturally hard worker, I always figured I’m here for 8-12 hours day goes faster when you are busy.

It was an interesting experience and after moving into enterprise software development served me really well when it came to producing things operatives actually got a benefit from.

It also makes me think that TUI’s with shortcut keys are often massively more efficient than a pretty GUI but I digress.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#92
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's as plain as day that Amazon isn't keeping manual labor around out of the goodness of their hearts. There is no bottom line calculation other than the cost of manual labor vs the cost of automation, and no amount of deflection about the working conditions of warehouse work (whether better than Home Depot or not) is going to keep your job once the scale tips in the other direction. Be that as it may, agitating f…

That's a valid concern and I think there's no really great path forward, aside from broad structural changes that will blunt the negative consequences of automation: how do you balance good working conditions with the specter of automation? If human labor forever has to undercut the cost of automation, then we can't discount the human cost of doing so.

The problem isn't actually automation. If a job gets automated, now the thing being produced costs less. At scale it means you can have the same standard of living with a lower salary -- a boon for the poor.

The real problem is when some of the things have artificial scarcity. If we have zoning laws that prevent new housing from being built, the poor can't afford housing. If we have restrictions on the number of new doctors and regulations that create high compliance costs and barriers to competition in medical services, the poor can't afford medicine.

You can't make a robot to build housing for people in a place where there is effectively a law against building new housing. So that's where we get into trouble -- people building moats around stuff that make it more expensive, to prevent its cost from staying in line (i.e. declining) along with everything else, until those things are unaffordable.

The real problem is the high cost of housing and medicine and education.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#93
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's as plain as day that Amazon isn't keeping manual labor around out of the goodness of their hearts. There is no bottom line calculation other than the cost of manual labor vs the cost of automation, and no amount of deflection about the working conditions of warehouse work (whether better than Home Depot or not) is going to keep your job once the scale tips in the other direction. Be that as it may, agitating f…

I think I disagree. If job roles are arranged like a pyramid (wide base of lower paid jobs, with lower number of higher paid jobs above) - the largest benefit is always going to be automating away the high number of low paid jobs. Amazon might roll out some pick-and-pack droids - but are unlikely to replace Jeff with an AI farm of CEO-leadership. If you say look at say what Uber or AirBNB have done, it's replacing th…

I don't see how this contradicts the argument above.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#94
...Wow. This article changed my opinions dramatically. Really thankful to see an article like this. It puts the emphasis on irresponsible (whether it's intended or not) journalism as a huge problem here in the US, as opposed to all the dystopian news stories that come out these days.

Of course there are real exceptions, like stories that turn out to be true about really bad working conditions in some places. But it particularly struck me to see this example, of John Oliver and his team grasping at straws to put together a damning narrative about Amazon, only for one guy with firsthand warehouse experience to come out and tell a much more positive and convincing story about his job.

We definitely live in a time where social media and the news tend to make us think the world is a hellscape of things like big tech and AI, corrupt politics, and corporate greed, all coming together to destroy our world as we know it. I don't think the world is perfect, there's still tons of problems that really suck (homelessness, poverty, actual corruption and greed, ...) but I feel like we're gonna be totally fine and this is pretty manageable overall. We'll figure it all out.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#95
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's as plain as day that Amazon isn't keeping manual labor around out of the goodness of their hearts. There is no bottom line calculation other than the cost of manual labor vs the cost of automation, and no amount of deflection about the working conditions of warehouse work (whether better than Home Depot or not) is going to keep your job once the scale tips in the other direction. Be that as it may, agitating f…

I think I disagree. If job roles are arranged like a pyramid (wide base of lower paid jobs, with lower number of higher paid jobs above) - the largest benefit is always going to be automating away the high number of low paid jobs. Amazon might roll out some pick-and-pack droids - but are unlikely to replace Jeff with an AI farm of CEO-leadership. If you say look at say what Uber or AirBNB have done, it's replacing th…

> If job roles are arranged like a pyramid (wide base of lower paid jobs, with lower number of higher paid jobs above) - the largest benefit is always going to be automating away the high number of low paid jobs.

Not quite. If you can automate a CEO you might cut a million dollars out of the budget -- maybe even ten or a hundred million in some companies. But if you can automate 500K people making $15/hour, that's over fifteen billion dollars a year. Plus benefits and employment overhead. So yes, there's more incentive to automate the larger number of people.

But if the same number of people made $25/hour, then it would be over 25 billion a year. So it's both.

This has actually played out in practice with both automation and outsourcing. The auto workers were some of the first to go, specifically because there were both a lot of them and they had high wages, resulting in a very large incentive to reduce those costs once they had real competition from Japan.

It's not unreasonable for people to be willing to accept less money as one of the ways to stay competitive. The problem is when that amount of money isn't enough to make a living -- but it's not automation that makes stuff cost more. Automation makes stuff cost less. The problem is the high cost of the things that haven't been automated, and the barriers to entry preventing all of these people from doing those jobs, which should in turn bring down those costs -- unless we're dealing with artificial scarcity like zoning regulations. In which case we've identified the real source of the problem.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#96

When I was young I did agency employment for a few years between leaving school and figuring out what I wanted to do. A lot of that was in warehouses (I also worked in greenhouses harvesting cucumbers 45C and 100% humidity, a paint factory moving 15l paint tins all day - never eaten so much or been so fit, 15l tins of bitumen are heavy to handball all day, steel plant that powder coated so hot tanks of acid and full…

> never had an issue with hard work

Very similar boat as you when I was younger. Lots of physical labor. No big deal when you're young. Extrapolate that out to a decade, two decades, or an entire career and I bet we would both be singing a different tune.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain how this article was: 1. vile 2. right-wing 3. strawman-bestrewn 4. ass-covering 5. spreading FUD thanks

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/quillette/ welcome

The source you just linked to, claiming to be an unbiased arbiter, is itself immediately biased.

On Quillete:

> they report favorably on Jordan Peterson who has made several anti-Feminist statements and has called for “enforced monogamy”

Eric Weinstein absolutely destroyed this position. The New York Times initially criticized Jordan Peterson for the usage of the term "enforced monogamy," only for Weinstein to dig up multiple instances of the Times using the exact same phrase to describe exactly what Peterson meant. Enforced monogamy is literally a phrase that means "the social pressure to engage in long-term monogamous behavior." He used it in the context of describing why there was an uptick in "incels," essentially destructive men who are reproductively unsuccessful and increasingly unhappy with society. He wasn't even advocating for enforced monogamy, he was literally stating that the social move away from monogamy increases the number of involuntarily celibate men, which is empirically true. Every dating site has converged on the now infamous 80/20 statistic that demonstrates precisely this.

So please, check your own sources. What they've criticized Quillete for is a well debunked criticism of one of their contributors.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#99
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. I was once in a HR seminar where they welcomed you to the company. When the woman said "we get 19 days PTO a year", you'd be surprised how many people shot up and said "can we start taking them right now?" Before they had even worked a day! PTO days are accurred by hours worked. For me, it's ~6 hours per 15 calendar days. You think you're entitled to PTO having worked 0 hours?...

PTO is a very strange concept for much of the world. I'm in the UK and get work full time and get 25 days holiday to take, plus the national/bank holidays. If I'm sick I take a sick day. If I take a significant number of sick days, I'll be asked to produce a note from my doctor confirming that I'm sick. If I get really sick, then myself and my employer both contribute to insurance that (I think, not checked for a whi…

typically there's a sick and vacation subset for "PTO". like you get 2 weeks vacation and a week of sick days. Sometimes they're interchangeable sometimes not. It all depends on where you work. My employer only deals in vacation days, sick days are basically "don't abuse it and we don't care" similar to your setup.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#100
post #10

I had read a few of these negative articles about Amazon fulfillment centers and then a guy we know working the counter at our local pizza place got a job at one of them. That made me change my mind and doubt the reporting after talking with him. The pay was much better better, the benefits if he transitioned to full time were much better, and he was really excited about a program Amazon has to cover tuition after (I…

Did he manage to transition to full-time/permanent?

Where I live, I know some people who work/have worked in the local fulfillment center, and say that few people manage to transition to full-time/permanent, they seem to find ways to fire/lay off people before they get there, the workforce is constantly turning over.

Different locations may be different though.

Post reply on HN