Wittgenstein’s Legacy: The Principles of the Private Language Arguments (2018)
41–50 of 58 posts
Re: Wittgenstein’s Legacy: The Principles of the Private Language Arguments (2018)
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm using the term "mathematics" in a deliberately hand-wavy fashion because people keep wanting to poke at this from various angles and even though the underlying theory is the same, it can appear that you are receiving different answers simply because you are asking the question from different epistemological frameworks. There's a reason Wittgenstein was the man and I'm not. If you like, we can assume that differen…
Apparently the ideas and mental concepts in one person's brain are roughly similar to those in another's, at least similar enough so that common sets of symbols, semantics, and syntax can be agreed such that communication is possible. The fact that various observers get the same impression of the scintillating grid is evidence for some commonality, although I think that in this case it arises from processing in the r…
But the illusion here is the same: that given this natural input we begin processing before birth, that these concepts extend to completely invented terms. Most folks never look there, they never wonder why a car is called a car, and there's no downside at all. It's a pernicious concept and a wickedly-difficult thing to eventually realize.
I don't see where we disagree. The only thing I'd add is that whether you have a completely private language or not, in terms of problem-solving/goal-seeking, is not important. For non-formal, non-tech things, using common words and gestures provides the quickest way forward. Once you start creating a self-consistent system of symbols representing state and behavior, though, you might actually be better off if everybody has completely different private languages. The illusion of common understanding where there is none is more dangerous than misunderstanding. There are no red lights or sirens that go off when human communication failures happen. It's all silence. It could be no other way.
Re: Wittgenstein’s Legacy: The Principles of the Private Language Arguments (2018)
#43Re: Wittgenstein’s Legacy: The Principles of the Private Language Arguments (2018)
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
But to such different ends that the resemblance is very strained, surely? Programmers look to make an approximately useful tool, Philosophers look to discover fundamentals and insights.
But useful tools are built on fundamentals by way of insights.
Text messages turned out to be a great tool, created more or less by accident and intended for a completely different purpose.
Twitter is something no-one asked for, but it changed the very landscape of mass communication. Its more like a tool that has shaped the world around it.
Wikipedia is a fantastic tool. It was essentially created on a hunch, that a crowd-sourced encyclopedia would work. Deep analysis of the fundamentals of knowledge and how people work together to shape it was not necessary for it to be built. It was more like 'this is possible, lets try it'.
The internet is basically layers of hacks, each bent to a different purpose from the original design. If you try to design something like the internet and make it philosophically pure, you end up with Project Xanadu. Which doesn't work.
Facebook's model of how human friendships work is laughably simplistic - binary on/off friend/unfriend. There's no insight there. If the Social Network is to be believed, Zuckerberg's main insight was to build something that would help harvard students get laid. But still, Facebook works as a tool. Google Plus tried to have a more accurate model of relationships, and made it too complicated. Perhaps insight is a disadvantage? A good tool should be about the possible.
Re: Wittgenstein’s Legacy: The Principles of the Private Language Arguments (2018)
#45For those who enjoy Wittgenstein, I highly recommend the works of one his greatest students - Elizabeth Anscombe. Possibly one of the most prominent women philosophers of all time.
Re: Wittgenstein’s Legacy: The Principles of the Private Language Arguments (2018)
#46If you’d like to read Wittgenstein but don’t know where to start I would recommend reading “How to read Wittgenstein” by Ray Monk, as an introduction before moving to “Philosophical Investigation” (rather than starting with his first book, the Tractatus, which is really cryptic). I saw this advice on another HN thread a while ago and for me it was it spot on. I also read Ray Monk’s bio of Wittgenstein but found it a…
- To utter a word is to strike a note on the keyboard of the imagination.
359. Could a machine think? ... Well is the human body to be considered such a machine? It surely comes as close as possible to being such a machine.
583. ... And the word “hope” refers to a phenomenon of human life. (A smiling mouth smiles only in a human face.)
Re: Wittgenstein’s Legacy: The Principles of the Private Language Arguments (2018)
#47For someone so obsessed with language, I never understood why his writing is so cryptic. I haven't read the original, but in translation, his writing seems almost purposefully ambiguous. To people here versed in philosophy, was there really a purpose for this? Could his ideas not have been expressed more clearly or explicitly?
Someone expressing himself clearly would not become so famous.
Re: Wittgenstein’s Legacy: The Principles of the Private Language Arguments (2018)
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
So are you technically a different person when your every cell is replaced?
One may argue you are a different person even once some of your cells are replaced. I imagine your next question might be whether you owe something to now-me if you were to take a loan from a previous-me. This looks like a pair of mirror bugs. Yeah, the person is already a new one, but if we'd really treat them that way, we'd have to make our laws and morals even more complex. Instead, we just pretend that's the same…
If one cell is enough, than one atom is enough and so on. Then, nothing's really the same. But we use this notion because it's convenient, so we're back at the beginning.
Re: Wittgenstein’s Legacy: The Principles of the Private Language Arguments (2018)
#49When I first read about Wittgenstein in some junior encyclopedia, it said that he discovered that many problems in philosophy were meaningless because words might mean different things. I imagined he was talking about words like "socialism" or "equality" -- words that are obviously slippery. But it turns out that words like "is" and "have" cause just as much trouble. Wittgenstein is famously hard to read. I have the…
Wittgenstein somehow managed to suck all of western philosophy into his head and came up with this. I don't think it's necessary for us to follow in his footsteps to realize the truth of what he's saying; this is much like we don't have to understand thermodynamics to build a campfire, even though we're using a lot of its principles. He can be "right enough" for our purposes, which is ironically the point of much of…
That's not true if you mean it in the literal sense, that he was a student of philosophy. He really wasn't; he hadn't read much philosophy (having been an engineer/mathematician), but he did jump in and criticize contemporary ideas and managed to very much impress Bertrand Russell, who became his mentor. Later in his life, towards his final days, he did start to read philosophy from the ground up, like an undergrad or grad student would.[1]
What's amusing is that he wrote the Tractatus, then "retired" from philosophy, believing he'd solved it all, before getting back into it again and producing Philosophical Investigations. During this time I believe he was either a monk or a teacher and gardener.
1 - Source for this is a talk given by Professor A C Grayling at Cambridge University (on YouTube) about Wittgenstein's life
Re: Wittgenstein’s Legacy: The Principles of the Private Language Arguments (2018)
#50Wittgentein's ideas have echoes and deep relationships with modern subjects like cognitive science and artificial intelligence (and sensitive ones, like religion and beliefs in the supernatural). In the case of AI, what is interesting is that his ideas do not discuss whether it's possible or not to create a thinking machine (i.e. technically or scientifically), but rather what it would really mean (conceptually).