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Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

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Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#41

Post by hanniabu »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #35
jakelazaroff wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are they truly contractors? They don't set the price for their own labor and can be fired for declining too many rides.

Not setting the price doesn't seem like a big deal. I can put an ad on Craigslist saying I'm willing to pay $100 to have my driveway pressure washed. Doesn't make any takers my employee.

You kind of are setting your price on that. You see the job and you can tell if $100 is accommodatable or not, ie does it match your desired rate. With Uber, you don't get to pick and choose like that, you have no idea where the destination is when you select a job. I don't believe you have any idea how many people you're picking up along the way either.

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#42

Post by TeMPOraL »

jacques_chester wrote: post #4

A pedant might argue, and cogently one might add, that Uber's unsustainable business model is what will destroy Uber's unsustainable business model.

The story of Uber is one of how surprisingly long they can keep an unsustainable (and illegal) business model running. They were supposed to be dead for a long time now. They're still kicking.

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#43

Post by iandanforth »

"Uber has never made a profit and has actually lost over $14 billion in the last four years alone. In the prospectus, Uber insists that these five major metropolitan markets are essential to its path to profitability. In reality, what Uber actually relies on is the $20 billion in funding raised over the past decade and the $8 billion in new investments after going public in May. This investor welfare covers the cost of low prices that render each rideshare trip unprofitable, of driver incentives to combat the high turnover rate of drivers, and of promotions used to drive up demand."

Article nails it, Uber is an investor funded welfare program. Certainly Uber's tech employees are benefiting from this welfare a lot more than drivers, but does asking a massively unprofitable company to be even more unprofitable aid drivers' long-term interests?

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#44

Post by hanniabu »

CydeWeys wrote: post #19
empath75 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half the time in New York you get a cab with their meter off when you call Uber.

What?! I live in NYC, have taken dozens of Ubers/Lyfts to a variety of places, and have literally never once seen this.

I've never had it happen to me, but I see the taxis driving around with the Uber and Lyft signs in their window.

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#45

Post by marcosdumay »

vikramkr wrote: post #10

But they aren't employees. I still dont understand why people who get to work on demand whenever they want without a boss to report to or set hours are employees. The company doesn't get the benefits of having employees (schedule them in for rush hours, reliable controllable labor base), so why should drivers get the perks of becoming an employee without having to give up their flexibility and everything?

There is more to employment relations than set hours.

Uber drivers absolutely have a boss to report too. Can they drive for other services? (I know that in Brazil they can, but Uber only started to allow it after a court ruled that exclusivity implies in employment.) Does Uber require a stable relationship? (Even the ranking system may imply in stability.)

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#48

Post by TeMPOraL »

cle wrote: post #38
celticmusic wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a crock, Uber is setting those prices not the market. The market says Uber should be going out of business with the prices it sets, except investors keep dumping money into it.

Doesn’t Uber have competitors? And why shouldn’t we consider investors part of the market? (Pardon my ignorance if these are dumb questions...)

It does, but the competitors are having a hard time because Uber can keep undercutting them and staying unprofitable longer than the competitors can stay solvent.

> And why shouldn’t we consider investors part of the market?

We can, but there are rules of "fair play" to the market that are supposed to be followed. What Uber is doing with SV money is, in saner sectors, called dumping, and generally considered illegal. Somehow it isn't, and even if it was, it probably wouldn't do much, as Uber's whole "rideshare" operation is illegal almost everywhere they run it.

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#49

Post by bobthepanda »

iandanforth wrote: post #43

"Uber has never made a profit and has actually lost over $14 billion in the last four years alone. In the prospectus, Uber insists that these five major metropolitan markets are essential to its path to profitability. In reality, what Uber actually relies on is the $20 billion in funding raised over the past decade and the $8 billion in new investments after going public in May. This investor welfare covers the cost…

A fair amount of businesses were probably put out of business when we banned child labor.

Doing anything to restrict any business will reduce profitability and make their balance sheets redder, but as a society we can define the minimum standards that a company is expected to meet; otherwise they'll just feel free to dump the externalities of treating their workers poorly onto society and the general taxpayer will have to pay for it.

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#50

Post by vikramkr »

marcosdumay wrote: post #45
vikramkr wrote: post #10

But they aren't employees. I still dont understand why people who get to work on demand whenever they want without a boss to report to or set hours are employees. The company doesn't get the benefits of having employees (schedule them in for rush hours, reliable controllable labor base), so why should drivers get the perks of becoming an employee without having to give up their flexibility and everything?

There is more to employment relations than set hours. Uber drivers absolutely have a boss to report too. Can they drive for other services? (I know that in Brazil they can, but Uber only started to allow it after a court ruled that exclusivity implies in employment.) Does Uber require a stable relationship? (Even the ranking system may imply in stability.)

Every single driver I've seen in the us has both uber and lyft installed and picks between them at will.
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