Reddit AMA: I'm a Former Amazon Fulfillment Center Employee • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit AMA: I'm a Former Amazon Fulfillment Center Employee

#71

Post by pooya13 » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 5:28 PM UTC

If automation improves productivity by two times, it means that people have to work half as much. Simple math. Why is this not happening with the glorious free market capitalism?

I once brought up the idea of automation tax and UBI here and was downvoted to oblivion by the HN conservatives. But that’s obviously the only way to avoid modern day slavery or else we end up in a local equilibrium where the owners of capital automate away every thing that gives the masses their edge and we put the final nail in the coffin of democracy. (Not that we are too far from that with the media, legislation, election laws and enforcement being massively biased towards capital controlled by a small minority)

Re: Reddit AMA: I'm a Former Amazon Fulfillment Center Employee

#72

Post by BuckRogers » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 5:32 PM UTC

zdragnar wrote: post #62

krapp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

To better understand antipathy towards unions in the US, do a google search for "new york rubber room". Tens of millions of dollars a year spent on salaries for teachers who had to be pulled from classrooms but couldn't be fired. Due to the backlog of arbiters, they sit around doing nothing at all. It's bad for them, bad for the schools, and bad for the public. It's an extreme example, to be sure, but it is also one…

Unions are a universal good, because all they are in essence is collective bargaining.

Just because bad things happen within and around all human organizations has no bearing on the concept of collective bargaining or working class unity, which itself is sorely lacking in the US specifically. Which means your examples amount to propaganda in favor of the investment class in the end.

Re: Reddit AMA: I'm a Former Amazon Fulfillment Center Employee

#73

Post by BuckRogers » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

SantalBlush wrote: post #45

krapp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If a businessperson uses all available means to profit, it is smart. If a worker does the same, it is lazy.

That is a good point but wages from labor are not a profit. It’s a trade. Your time and effort for the money.

So it’s even worse than you portray. Companies maximizing profits is not a trade that they suffer for. It could simply be theft out of the employee’s pocket, or in the form of harm done to the environment.

Re: Reddit AMA: I'm a Former Amazon Fulfillment Center Employee

#74

Post by BuckRogers » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

cultus wrote: post #19

sebazzz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet again we see that the true cost not the listed price is. I wonder who approves these conditions in the company, or whether it is just some general company management culture embedded in the system.

It's not even the culture, it's 100% intentional. Everyone up to Jeff Bezos is fully aware of all of this and makes the decision to maintain these conditions in order to slightly raise profits. Fulfillment center employees also searched for theft after their shift every day. Not only is this dehumanizing, but they don't hire enough security people. This results in 20+ minute lines. The employees are unpaid while wait…

In that case the results should be one hour worth of wages should be deducted from every government employee’s paycheck including the Supreme Courts Justices until private market employees are paid for their time standing in line at the end of the day.

If working at Amazon means your time is free for corporations, then it should apply to everyone until it’s fixed.

Re: Reddit AMA: I'm a Former Amazon Fulfillment Center Employee

#75

Post by erikpukinskis » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 6:03 PM UTC

cultus wrote: post #19

sebazzz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet again we see that the true cost not the listed price is. I wonder who approves these conditions in the company, or whether it is just some general company management culture embedded in the system.

It's not even the culture, it's 100% intentional. Everyone up to Jeff Bezos is fully aware of all of this and makes the decision to maintain these conditions in order to slightly raise profits. Fulfillment center employees also searched for theft after their shift every day. Not only is this dehumanizing, but they don't hire enough security people. This results in 20+ minute lines. The employees are unpaid while wait…

Wow, I had to look it up, but this is all true. I guess companies can hold you on premises as long as they like without pay, so long as you’re not working.

Strange. I’m not totally sure what it is about waiting in a security line that makes it “not working”. Supposedly cleaning chemicals from the plant off your body does count as work. But participating in a workplace compliance process like a security line is not work. But I assume the screeners are getting paid? I guess it’s because screening is part of their job description.

I guess I’d have to read the opinions to find out where that line is. It’s not obvious to me.

“Am I free to go” would seem like a more obvious line... although then the chemical showers wouldn’t be billable. Since you’re free to leave dirty. I can see the legal dilemma.

All of this isn’t really any constitutional issue though, it’s just federal employment regulations. So good regulators in the executive could fix it.

Re: Reddit AMA: I'm a Former Amazon Fulfillment Center Employee

#76

Post by krapp » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 6:04 PM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #75

cultus wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even the culture, it's 100% intentional. Everyone up to Jeff Bezos is fully aware of all of this and makes the decision to maintain these conditions in order to slightly raise profits. Fulfillment center employees also searched for theft after their shift every day. Not only is this dehumanizing, but they don't hire enough security people. This results in 20+ minute lines. The employees are unpaid while wait…

Wow, I had to look it up, but this is all true. I guess companies can hold you on premises as long as they like without pay, so long as you’re not working. Strange. I’m not totally sure what it is about waiting in a security line that makes it “not working”. Supposedly cleaning chemicals from the plant off your body does count as work. But participating in a workplace compliance process like a security line is not wo…

>Strange. I’m not totally sure what it is about waiting in a security line that makes it “not working”.

They've already clocked out, but not yet left the premises. Technically speaking, they're choosing to wait in the security line on their own free time.

Re: Reddit AMA: I'm a Former Amazon Fulfillment Center Employee

#77

Post by BuckRogers » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 6:09 PM UTC

RandomBacon wrote: post #11

massysett wrote: post #5

I see “modern day slavery” and I stop reading. There are no whips. No rape. No families torn apart. No slave ships. Grow up people.

There's no "Company Store" where you get deeper in debt to your employeer. No indentured servitude. No one forcing you to work there (quit anytime for a better job). Etc. I don't like what I hear about working conditions and agree it should be improved, and I also agree this is not slavery.

I don’t disagree but only on the concept of chattel slavery, there are other forms of slavery. The idea that there are better jobs for every single employee there isn’t true. Amazon knows that, you know that, the parent knows that. And since people have to work to survive, it is a bit of a trap or a form of wage slavery.

But then if you sit around on welfare, you’re demonized less than a worker that undoubtably contributes to society. If you ask for a pay raise and a union, the propaganda goes in full affect.

Resistance to improving working conditions seems to be almost as strong as resistance to ending slavery in the south as well.

Regardless of the use of the word slavery, I’m all for supporting the people who actually work on the bottom rung. Wage competition between union and salary jobs are the main reason things are as good as they even are in the US today.

Re: Reddit AMA: I'm a Former Amazon Fulfillment Center Employee

#78

Post by zdragnar » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

mighty_bander wrote: post #69

zdragnar wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To better understand antipathy towards unions in the US, do a google search for "new york rubber room". Tens of millions of dollars a year spent on salaries for teachers who had to be pulled from classrooms but couldn't be fired. Due to the backlog of arbiters, they sit around doing nothing at all. It's bad for them, bad for the schools, and bad for the public. It's an extreme example, to be sure, but it is also one…

You've highlighted a common union-busting tactic with the New York teachers example. The employer won't fund sufficient resources for arbitration, and so innocent and guilty alike languish for ages, and somehow this is the union's fault, as if denying the accused a fair hearing was a reasonable option. Between you, me, and the internet, I agree the seniority system is horrible, but if you don't like it, you are free…

I don't know of anyone who thinks that teachers unions- esp. in NY of all places- are going to be "busted", at least not by this. I also don't see how the administration benefits at all from paying 10-20 million a year in salaries to teachers who arent teaching; it'd surely be cheaper to speed up arbitration and get on with it.

As for the seniority system, unfortunately, the tyranny of the marjority is how it stays in place. First in, last out, best perks. The nature and structure of unions enables this far more readily than any merit based system. Vote all you want, but it won't change that both the company and the union are trying to screw you over. At least, that's the mentality among anti-union types in the US.