Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model • Hacker News Board

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#21

Post by Zigurd » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 5:01 PM UTC

pyrophane wrote: post #14

webwielder2 wrote: post #2

How about people get guaranteed certain rights and services by the government so we don’t have to worry about whether someone’s an employee or contractor?

There is still the question of compensations. There are limits to how little you can pay an employee, and that will still be an issue in a situation like this unless, perhaps, we have something like universal basic income.

Well, another reason for UBI. And universal access to a high standard of health care. If you make the right policy decisions, you can have high workforce mobility, competitiveness, and efficiency at the same time as having worker dignity.

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#22

Post by throwaway2048 » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 5:02 PM UTC

skinnymuch wrote: post #8

willio58 wrote: post #3

Eh.. just charge people more money to use Uber. Yeah they would lose a lot of regular riders but will those people really go back to using cabs? Uber could double their prices and I would still use them over taxis 9/10 times.

If Lyft and Uber both raise their prices by say 50% around the same time. And they can get away with however that would be achieved then yeah I agree with you completely. They’d def lose riders. But not close to 50% of rides. Not even half that. For myself, I’d ride a bit less. Probably not do 1 in 4 rides I’d normally do. But when I need a ride back from the train station or I’m late to something and public transit…

to lose money on a 50% price raise they'd only need to lose more than 33% of rides (not customers), and least with a very naive calculation, a lot depends on their per ride and fixed overheads.

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#23

Post by caymanjim » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #7

willio58 wrote: post #3

Eh.. just charge people more money to use Uber. Yeah they would lose a lot of regular riders but will those people really go back to using cabs? Uber could double their prices and I would still use them over taxis 9/10 times.

Half the time in New York you get a cab with their meter off when you call Uber.

I've never once gotten a taxi when using Uber in Manhattan. Do you know what the TLC's stance on this is? Does it endanger their medallion?

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#24

Post by hello_asm_world » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 5:06 PM UTC

webwielder2 wrote: post #2

How about people get guaranteed certain rights and services by the government so we don’t have to worry about whether someone’s an employee or contractor?

This.

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#25

Post by Zigurd » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

vikramkr wrote: post #10

But they aren't employees. I still dont understand why people who get to work on demand whenever they want without a boss to report to or set hours are employees. The company doesn't get the benefits of having employees (schedule them in for rush hours, reliable controllable labor base), so why should drivers get the perks of becoming an employee without having to give up their flexibility and everything?

You can see the two-sided market of Uber as a market, or a faux market used as an obfuscation of terms of employment. It's more clearly an obfuscation of employment when, for example, package delivery services fire employees and the turn around and use the same people as "contractors." Uber skipped the first phase.

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#26

Post by api » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

willio58 wrote: post #3

Eh.. just charge people more money to use Uber. Yeah they would lose a lot of regular riders but will those people really go back to using cabs? Uber could double their prices and I would still use them over taxis 9/10 times.

Every time I ride a cab I think never again. For some reason I decide to give them a chance again and regret it.

My last experience consisted of a driver who seemed jacked on coke or speed or maybe just nuts driving very badly and then (as usual for cabs) pretending the card system didn't work to pressure me into going out of my way to get cash.

Prior to that there was a cab that smelled bad with a broken door that caused the door ajar indicator to beep for the entire trip. This driver also pretended the card system didn't work.

City is Los Angeles but I have had similarly bad experiences in SF and Dallas in recent years. In Dallas I had one whose driver smelled like sasquatch and was obviously taking me the long way. In SF my driver helpfully introduced me to QAnon.

I've had marginal Ubers and Lyfts but none have been as bad as the average licensed taxi.

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#27

Post by caymanjim » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 5:08 PM UTC

paulsutter wrote: post #20

Im baffled to imagine drivers really want to lose all those tax deductions - and get paid less - to be employees rather than contractors. Being an employee is just about the worst possible tax situation. A better change in the law would be the opposite. Give the benefits of being a contractor to all folks currently forced to be categorized as employees. And fix healthcare so it’s not tied to your job.

Being an employee means you can unionize, you must be paid minimum wage, you have protection against arbitrary termination, and myriad other benefits. Many drivers prefer the current arrangement, but many also want to make the tradeoff.

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#28

Post by rsweeney21 » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 5:08 PM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #13

vikramkr wrote: post #10

But they aren't employees. I still dont understand why people who get to work on demand whenever they want without a boss to report to or set hours are employees. The company doesn't get the benefits of having employees (schedule them in for rush hours, reliable controllable labor base), so why should drivers get the perks of becoming an employee without having to give up their flexibility and everything?

But are they truly contractors? They don't set the price for their own labor and can be fired for declining too many rides.

As with any independent contractor, the market sets the rate. Uber is just a really efficient marketplace since an Uber ride is a complete commodity with no specialization.

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#29

Post by mhh__ » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #5

willio58 wrote: post #3

Eh.. just charge people more money to use Uber. Yeah they would lose a lot of regular riders but will those people really go back to using cabs? Uber could double their prices and I would still use them over taxis 9/10 times.

Where I live, Uber managed to force taxi services to evolve and embrace technology like mobile apps and GPS and flat estimates. And now the local taxi is much better than Uber, in my opinion. I'm not sure what the free market textbook says about this but as a consumer it's a huge win.

The textbook has nothing to say: Competition is never a bad thing in cases like this.

Re: Bill Could Destroy Uber's Unsustainable Business Model

#30

Post by TeMPOraL » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

tonmoy wrote: post #17

skinnymuch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you live? This seems like an anomaly.

I have seen similar things happening in a lot of countries outside of US. So maybe not as anomalous as you think

In various cities of Poland, the transformation was already halfway done before Uber. The main thing missing was an app, but arguably it would've happened without Uber.