I'm not planning on living in California ever again, but the title here seems a bit prejudiced? Couldn't we lose "vowed not to become California" and keep most of the meaning?
Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws
41–50 of 278 posts
Re: Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We've observed that [leaving children unattended] becomes unsafe in places with high density populations. Is that factually accurate, or just a false impression that people get? Let's assume it is objectively more unsafe. Is the problem the high density or is it some other aspect that causes issues? Most kids in East European countries, the vast majority of which grow up in high density neighborhoods, are left unat…
I think the problem is imagined. The “problem” of safety has made its way out to the burbs now too. The public world is mostly safe, and kids are mostly capable of navigating it on their own and in small groups — the adults in America have chosen not to believe that, and written laws forbidding parents from allowing their children to even attempt it. These choices may have resulted in a few less kidnappings, but they…
Stranger danger isn't the only risk to children. Being hit by fast moving vehicle traffic is much higher on most people's worry list.
Re: Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws
#43Eastern European countries have a racial homogeneity that the United States doesn't have.
No they don't. Gypsies are a large ethnic minority in many eastern european countries. Also, although a religious minority instead of racial, there are a large percentage of Muslims in many of those countries too. Don't forget that the last european genocide over ethnic and religious lines happened in eastern europe too.
Also don't forget their is currently an ONGOING war in the Ukraine over divisions between those who are ethnically Russian and those are ethnically Ukranian.
I'm not preaching diversity as a virtue in itself but the idea that places like Eastern Europe are some kind of ethnic utopia where you can leave your doors unlocked and kids play on the streets just because everybody is white is just absurd.
Re: Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws
#44> Lawmakers passed a first-in-the-nation cap on rent increases Unfortunately, rent control will have the opposite effect of what Oregon thinks, and only make housing scarcity worse. https://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/07/opinion/reckonings-a-rent... https://www.governing.com/gov-institute/voices/col-rent-cont... > in an effort to spur new homebuilding, became the only state to eliminate single-family-only zoning in many…
> Unfortunately, rent control will have the opposite effect of what Oregon thinks, and only make housing scarcity worse. I always found it odd that rent control always seems to be an all-or-nothing policy: either things are tamped down on, or it's a laissez faire system. Does any locality have a "hybrid" approached. Something like: * buildings 0-5 years old, allow up to 3x inflation rent increases * buildings 5-10 ye…
How would you avoid only high-rent housing being built in place of any torn down units?
This seems like it would still be rent-inflationary in nature, you just end up with younger average housing stock.
Re: Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws
#45Here’s an anti rent control argument I haven’t heard (this applies to stricter rent control regimes like NYC, SF - not sure about this new OR law). Getting a spot in a rent-controlled apartment is a valuable, non-transferable asset. If you buy a house and it gains $100,000 in equity, you can sell it and buy a bigger house, sell it and cash out while getting a smaller house, borrow against it. With a rent-control asset, you can’t do any of those things, so you have fewer options, but if you move, you just forfeit the asset. That’s a big economic drag.
I wonder how many rent-controlled residents in SF/NYC would accept a $100k buyout that would convert the apt to market rate. Has anyone seen a study of the spreads between market/rent-controlled, by city/zip/census tract? I’d love to see that.
Re: Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Really an appalling point of view. There is absolutely nothing wrong with single family neighborhoods; in fact, they are greatly desirable to most.
Sure, nothing wrong at all except for: -sedentary car-dependent lifestyle -inefficent use of arable land -carbon intense lifestyle contributing to the collapse of ecosystems -materialistic lifestyle enforced -impossible to serve economically with public transit making car ownership mandatory -energy inefficient buildings -encourages racial and economic segregation -anti-social lifestyle decreases face to face contact…
> anti-social lifestyle decreases face to face contact and increases barrier to connect with others
This cannot be overstated enough. My pet theory is that the suburbification of America led to our current division and political strife. You cannot expect great results when those with the most combined political power and wealth in the nation sequester themselves individually away from others and even each other. This ends up with anti-social people driving social policy for the nation. And it shows.
The older I get, watching the first generation fully raised in "suburban culture" seems to be a lesson in watching the threads of a society break down in real time. It's amazing to me that within 2-3 generations we completely blew up the notion of extended families and close-knit community taking care of each other.
That said...
> If I could vote to make these neighborhoods illegal, I would.
I'm not quite willing to go that far. I would simply make zoning them illegal. If an area is desirable enough to toss up a giant single family home next door to a few 3 flats - so be it. But I should be just as allowed to come buy that place, tear it down, and toss a small apartment building in it's place. Additionally I'd be in favor of laws that make it illegal (or exceedingly difficult) to require setbacks/minimum parking/etc. for most areas.
Basically I'd like to see a legal framework that brings us back to "natural" incremental city development vs. this BS planned crap that never works. The only cities in the world people marvel at (at least in western societies) are those that predated zoning law.
Choice and freedom are a beautiful thing. The problem now is there is little choice due to subsidy and zoning laws.
Re: Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws
#47Eastern European countries have a racial homogeneity that the United States doesn't have.
No they don't. Gypsies are a large ethnic minority in many eastern european countries. Also, although a religious minority instead of racial, there are a large percentage of Muslims in many of those countries too. Don't forget that the last european genocide over ethnic and religious lines happened in eastern europe too. Also don't forget their is currently an ONGOING war in the Ukraine over divisions between those w…
Saying that a country like Romania is not ethnically homogeneous is absurd. Gypsies exist but in low numbers and stay in ghettos. Muslims only exist in some countries of the south of the Balkans.
Re: Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is the desirability of homes in single family neighbourhoods inconsistent with the fact that they tend towards creating haves and have-nots in the market for housing?
The definition of a market is haves and have-nots. Saying that building expensive things is segragation is thinly veiled strict socialism. What's the alternative, everyone is forced to live in the same housing? You can't force cheap apartments in nice neighborhoods, those neighborhoods will become not nice. Thats how rent control works
I should be able to build whatever I want on my private property. Whether it’s a house or an apartment building.
Re: Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We've observed that [leaving children unattended] becomes unsafe in places with high density populations. Is that factually accurate, or just a false impression that people get? Let's assume it is objectively more unsafe. Is the problem the high density or is it some other aspect that causes issues? Most kids in East European countries, the vast majority of which grow up in high density neighborhoods, are left unat…
The reasons you will get will all be euphemisms for "I think black people are criminals".
This is disingenuous. Lets admit that there are racist people who use and/or co-opt these types of regulations and address the genuine arguments in their favor. Then maybe we can find compromises that help both `sides`.
Re: Oregon passed sweeping housing crisis laws
#50> Lawmakers passed a first-in-the-nation cap on rent increases Unfortunately, rent control will have the opposite effect of what Oregon thinks, and only make housing scarcity worse. https://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/07/opinion/reckonings-a-rent... https://www.governing.com/gov-institute/voices/col-rent-cont... > in an effort to spur new homebuilding, became the only state to eliminate single-family-only zoning in many…
" > Unfortunately, rent control will have the opposite effect of what Oregon thinks, and only make housing scarcity worse."
I couldn't agree more.
Proposal: Current* property owners love new commercial property and HATE new residential units. (This is how you game the system to get prices up). What state governments should be doing is requiring new residential property on all approved new commercial property. This way, if a local city board really wants that new "Panera Bread" - they must approve new housing.