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Amateur radio digital communications 44.0.0.0/8 partial sell-off

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Re: Amateur radio digital communications 44.0.0.0/8 partial sell-off

#51

Post by wmf »

mbesto wrote: post #47
amingilani wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. You're blaming humanity because a marketplace developed following the scarcity of a commodity? Why was any of this bad behavior? I'm genuinely confused.

Here's my take - creating a marketplace where a sole actor has control over a scarce resource (IP addresses) is exactly why anti-trust exists. A true marketplace assumes there is competition. How do you have competition when the underlying resource (1) has a clearly understood finite number (2) is controlled by one entity and (3) can't be differentiated in any way (e.g. 10.0.0.0/8 has no differentiated intrinsic or e…

In what sense are IP addresses controlled by one entity? IANA isn't setting prices.

Re: Amateur radio digital communications 44.0.0.0/8 partial sell-off

#52

Post by ds »

Would be interesting to know the salary of the board will be in the future. It looks and smells like a cash grab to benefit those at the top with cushy jobs to be a pseudo VC under the guide of giving "grants".

If they were being honest with themselves, they would donate the entirety to the EFF instead of this bullshit maneuver.

Just to add, even if they dont get a salary at all (I would be shocked), the responsible thing for them to do would be to give the money away to the EFF or another org who knows how to best put the money to use.

The idea we are entrusting a group thats financial statement going back the past few years show just 5k-10k in assets with a 100 million dollar windfall is insane. If they dont fuck it all up within the first 6 months I will be shocked. More likely though will be some lawsuits which delays any use of the funds.

Re: Amateur radio digital communications 44.0.0.0/8 partial sell-off

#53

Post by solotronics »

eeeeeeeeeeeee wrote: post #30
billh wrote: post #4

> These days, less than one third of the address space is assigned and in use. Large chunks of it have almost never been used This part probably angers me the most as I (and I'm sure many others) have asked for an allocation in this address space and after waiting months without reply was eventually denied the request.

I’m not usually a “let the market decide” person, but ARIN has only made this problem worse with their idealism over reality policies. Their response has continued to be “time to switch to ipv6” which grossly oversimplifies the reality of the issue. Oddly enough, the Europeans, through RIPE are doing it right by allowing a market system so that unused but assigned net blocks can be sold to people that actually have a…

There are still blocks for sale in the US and probably always will be. Not saying your wrong just that the reality is more of a gray market vs the official ARIN party line. There are blocks that were assigned predating ARIN and if you never agreed then you can still sell these at a market rate.

Re: Amateur radio digital communications 44.0.0.0/8 partial sell-off

#54

Post by sigstoat »

nullbyte wrote: post #21
icedchai wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ARDC had administrative control of 44.0.0.0/8 for decades. It's not squatting... It's their space. There aren't enough active Hams in the world to use all of it, so nothing is lost. We'll all benefit more from Amazon and their customers making use of some of it.

I don't like mega-corporations stealing away the "public land" of the RF spectrum. This is like having a nice public park in your neighborhood get replaced with a Goldman Sachs corporate building.

> I don't like mega-corporations stealing away the "public land" of the RF spectrum.

this isn't part of the electromagnetic spectrum. these are IP addresses.

amateur radio folks are ideally suited to moving any IP operations over to IPv6.

> This is like having a nice public park in your neighborhood get replaced with a Goldman Sachs corporate building.

more like the derelict parking lot that's chained up so you can't use it.

Re: Amateur radio digital communications 44.0.0.0/8 partial sell-off

#55

Post by solotronics »

viraptor wrote: post #46
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #25

The money involved in IPv4 allocations - and name allocations too - really sickens me. It's a blemish on humanity and a testament to the limitless nature of human greed. IANA (and ICANN as a whole) is a corrupt, captured organization that I think represents the worst of the internet when it should have been the best of it. Removing price caps on .org, gold rushing outrageously priced gTLDs to anyone with the money (p…

> gold rushing outrageously priced gTLDs to anyone with the money I'm actually happy about that one. For realistic usage, it mostly went nowhere. People with money paid lots and got something they wanted. It's like a crazy rich person building a castle because they can. I'm happy they distributed the money.

Yeah I don't see how to allocate resources more fairly. It's either money or some arbitrary board with their own agendas.

Re: Amateur radio digital communications 44.0.0.0/8 partial sell-off

#57

Post by PunksATawnyFill »

nullbyte wrote: post #26
icedchai wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is those public parks get used. 44.0.0.0/8 is mostly empty.

Even so, we're left with less space than we had before. To my knowledge the FCC is pretty liberal with dishing out public RF spectrum ranges to private entities, but they're much more conservative with turning over private RF ranges to the public. Every part of the RF spectrum that the public loses is unlikely to be reclaimed. We have less airspace, permanently.

Even more objectionable when the government apparently doesn't have enough spectrum for actual public-service needs. Witness the hack that is our "next-gen" air-traffic system, ADS-B, which (if I remember correctly) is a hokey two-system, ground-dependent approach because of a lack of sufficient spectrum.

Re: Amateur radio digital communications 44.0.0.0/8 partial sell-off

#58

Post by PunksATawnyFill »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #25

The money involved in IPv4 allocations - and name allocations too - really sickens me. It's a blemish on humanity and a testament to the limitless nature of human greed. IANA (and ICANN as a whole) is a corrupt, captured organization that I think represents the worst of the internet when it should have been the best of it. Removing price caps on .org, gold rushing outrageously priced gTLDs to anyone with the money (p…

Exactly. The whole TLD thing is a scam and, as you say, a disgrace.

Canned TLDs should be eliminated altogether. There's no reason a domain can't end in any string; we should simply be able to register any domain we want except the ones that are truly limited, like gov and edu.

We already have a mechanism to handle trademark infringement, so let's not raise that strawman.

ICANN't is a rip-off and does nothing but bicker. Spend some time as a member, and you'll be sickened by the traffic on the mailing list.

https://icann.blows

Re: Amateur radio digital communications 44.0.0.0/8 partial sell-off

#59

Post by throwaway2048 »

solotronics wrote: post #53
eeeeeeeeeeeee wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not usually a “let the market decide” person, but ARIN has only made this problem worse with their idealism over reality policies. Their response has continued to be “time to switch to ipv6” which grossly oversimplifies the reality of the issue. Oddly enough, the Europeans, through RIPE are doing it right by allowing a market system so that unused but assigned net blocks can be sold to people that actually have a…

There are still blocks for sale in the US and probably always will be. Not saying your wrong just that the reality is more of a gray market vs the official ARIN party line. There are blocks that were assigned predating ARIN and if you never agreed then you can still sell these at a market rate.

Its a bit of a compromise from ARIN, because in order to sell it and be recognized by ARIN (able to update whois, get RKPI records, etc) the sellers must give ARIN authority over the sold netblock space.

Re: Amateur radio digital communications 44.0.0.0/8 partial sell-off

#60

Post by icedchai »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #59
solotronics wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are still blocks for sale in the US and probably always will be. Not saying your wrong just that the reality is more of a gray market vs the official ARIN party line. There are blocks that were assigned predating ARIN and if you never agreed then you can still sell these at a market rate.

Its a bit of a compromise from ARIN, because in order to sell it and be recognized by ARIN (able to update whois, get RKPI records, etc) the sellers must give ARIN authority over the sold netblock space.

I personally own a /24 block predating ARIN, registered back in 1993. I am not planning on selling it, and never signed their RSA agreements and probably never will as long as reverse DNS remains delegated.
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