America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births • Hacker News Board

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#321

Post by awinder » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 10:54 AM UTC

stouset wrote: post #181

rootusrootus wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They must be so bored… Your preconceived notions of what suburban living is like are just as inaccurate as the perceptions of city life of the person you responded to.

I grew up in a suburb and was bored shitless. I had one friend that lived within walking distance, and everyone else was too far away to get to without a car, which meant that I didn't get to see my friends unless it was convenient for one of my two parents (who both held full-time jobs). Cycling anywhere outside of the local neighborhood was out of the question, since the roads connecting neighborhoods were full of…

Woosh. So to the parents point, let me just explain that if you have kids and bring them up in the city, there’s a good chance they’re back on 2050s version of hackernews posting the suburban-centric viewpoint of how bleak city life is.

I get that everyone is living the best existence out there, but c’mon people, isn’t it clear that there is no objectively better place, only places with trade offs that appeal to different folks?

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#322

Post by chrisseaton » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 10:57 AM UTC

lrem wrote: post #318

chrisseaton wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Museums, zoos, aquariums, free events for kids, concerts just for babies, parks, swimming pools, little league, soccer league, skate parks, etc… You have to have all these things, because the children in a city can't just run off on their own and have to be marshalled and entertained at every step. Living in the suburbs I used to just go out every day and play in the woods and hills with my friends and we entertain…

You seem to be describing countryside, not the sea of free standing houses and small gardens most people associate with the word "suburb".

Most suburbs I've seen have areas of countryside around them. That's what makes them a suburb rather than an urban centre. It's kind of by definition.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#323

Post by braythwayt » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 11:06 AM UTC

peanutgal2600 wrote: post #292

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, good point, but you should be more precise: strollers with HUMAN KIDS in them. I swear that at least one in two, perhaps even more, of these strollers today tend to have dogs in them. At least in San Francisco.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've seen anyone on HN say, and I've seen people defending rapists. I lived in San Francisco for 20 years and never, ever saw that. I'm not some boring techie who never leaves SOMA or the Mission, I've walked every street in san francisco (according to my Garmin), I've had a drink in every bar, I've made music in almost every park. Have you ever even been to San Francisco?

I have lived in Toronto most of my life, and I’ve seen plenty of people with dogs in strollers. But before we climb up on stage like a smug comic and bond with the audience by ridiculing people we don’t understand, let’s ask ourselves this:

What do we do if our canine companion has mobility issues? How do we take them shopping with us so that they aren’t left at home, lonely? How do we take them to the park so they can lay down under a tree with us while we read a book?

Many people choose very small dogs. I don’t know if it’s fashion, or if it’s the best choice for living in a very small apartment/condo, but perhaps very small dogs aren’t able to keep up for long outings, and a stroller lets them accompany their human.

I stop far short of ridiculing things without looking past my biases and knee-jerk impulse to criticize things I don’t understand.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#324

Post by DrAwdeOccarim » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 11:06 AM UTC

OliverJones wrote: post #65

Japan is a decade or so "ahead" of USA in population decline, so it's worth looking at for hints about what might happen. They're starting to encourage immigration; a big change for that country. Up until 1832 England's Industrial Revolution cities had severe under-representation in their Parliament: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_Act_1832 . (In the USA, by comparison, the state of Massachusetts was a Calvinist…

You know, your point of "better infrastructure, can only lead to less hectic lives for city-dwellers. That will lead to more sex and more kiddos." rings really true. I wonder if all these reasons/explanations given in this article and that I see floating around boils down to free time. Like how when NYC had that summer blackout a few years ago there was a mini baby boom ~9 months later. The lack of power meant everyone was board and hot and in the dark so they decided to bone. The frenetic pace of life without support systems (e.g., close extended family) has just pushed sex down as a priority. So the way to get people to make more babies is to give them more free time. I bet this is an evolutionary thing too. If you're constantly on the run from predators and stuff, you shouldn't be making children. Only when things calm down would it make sense to procreate. So sex drive is probably directly related to free time...

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#325

Post by braythwayt » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 11:08 AM UTC

burfog wrote: post #222

tempsy wrote: post #200

Such a bad take. The actual "elite" in urban centers are the ones walking around with strollers. Have a kid in the big city is the ultimate flex. No one else has kids because they can barely afford to live there themselves, let alone support a kid in it. Edit: Also, it's not as if the author failed to mention that it's expensive to raise families in the city. It's that he says "yes it's really expensive to raise kids…

The comment about "affluent childless" singles supports his earlier comment about cost of living. The cost is high because those "affluent childless" singles are willing and able to pay more.

Never confuse correlation with causation.

If a city has high-paying jobs but doesn’t build enough housing for all the people working those jobs or the economy supporting those jobs, only those with lots of money to spend can afford housing, food, &c.

Presto, you get a high proportion of “DINKs” (double-income, no kids.)

Either explanation may drive the presence of high costs and density of DINKs. Or both: Perhaps the two things create a cycle of costs spiralling up combined with a change in demographic.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#326

Post by dhdidhdu » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 11:19 AM UTC

hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #296

dhdidhdu wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan is not tiny, and has a fraction of our drug use. They’re also brutal with drug crime. I wouldn’t execute drug addicts. But their pushers? Line-em right up!

You realise that most/many addicts will sell small amounts to other addicts?' Do you advocate the death sentence for drug company executives as well?

Yes, the executives of big pharma are the first in line.

The Dr. and pharmacists who enabled the opioid crisis as well.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#327

Post by dhdidhdu » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 11:26 AM UTC

dunnevens wrote: post #202

dhdidhdu wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan is not tiny, and has a fraction of our drug use. They’re also brutal with drug crime. I wouldn’t execute drug addicts. But their pushers? Line-em right up!

Just curious: would you advocate lining up liquor store owners? Bartenders?

Alcohol consumption has purposes other than mere intoxication. Likewise I wouldn’t execute a pharmacists who sells opium for legitimate reasons.

But sure, if you have an alcohol executive cutting their wine with methanol, pushing it to middle school kids and breaking interstate laws shipping laws to evade enforcement, like you did in prohibition... screw him.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#328

Post by dhdidhdu » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 11:29 AM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #317

dhdidhdu wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you let your four year old take public transit in NYC by himself? Because they do that in Japan.

The problem, of course, is that in America a driver will kill your four year old, and it will somehow be your fault for letting your kid walk to the metro station.

Or a creep. It’s not just drivers who make our cities bad.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#329

Post by tomp » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 11:33 AM UTC

elliekelly wrote: post #208

toomuchtodo wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that what equality was supposed to be? EDIT: Anecdotally, it seems that equality was strived for and it's not turning out as great as a lot of folks hoped for. Educated women don't date down like men did/do which makes finding a partner in itself much more difficult [1], women want the same career opportunities as men while also taking leave that puts them at a disadvantage, which is unavoidable; you will be at…

In the context of race would you measure equality against the standard of “white?” I should hope not. For the same reason measuring women against the standard of “men” isn’t equality.

Yes, race equality is measured against the standard of "white" - people advocate for blacks to become richer and less harrassed by the police, not for whites to become poorer and be harrassed more (btw, both would achieve the same amount of "equality").

Same for men vs. women - the drive wasn't/isn't to make men work less (and stay at home more, i.e. like women used to be and like my ideal world would look like), but to make women work more.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#330

Post by tomp » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 11:35 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #196

toasterlovin wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s perverse that in our (supposedly) liberated world the standard that women are held to is men.

Isn't that what equality was supposed to be? EDIT: Anecdotally, it seems that equality was strived for and it's not turning out as great as a lot of folks hoped for. Educated women don't date down like men did/do which makes finding a partner in itself much more difficult [1], women want the same career opportunities as men while also taking leave that puts them at a disadvantage, which is unavoidable; you will be at…

This whole "equality" thing is a big pickle. IMO governments should actively subsidise kids, both via parents (e.g. paying for childcare, school, etc.) and via companies (e.g. giving a company extra money/tax cut for each worker on parental leave, to equalize the amount of value (to the company) of a worker on leave vs. a worker actually working).

All of this assuming we (as a society) actually want people to keep having kids (which, at least in the West, societies/governments seem to want).