FaceApp Now Owns Access to More Than 150M People's Faces and Names • Hacker News Board

Re: FaceApp Now Owns Access to More Than 150M People's Faces and Names

#141

Post by eitland » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #102

godelski wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One people brush off and another people don't. So if you want to teach people about how and why data is important it is easier to do so when using Russia an an example (assuming you're a Westerner). Most people still have a fair amount of trust in US companies and don't believe they would abuse their power. Call it tribalism it whatever, but that's how it is. But to us in tech it's pretty obvious that even if Snapcha…

It's because Russia has been demonised in USA's propaganda over decades. They're selling trying to do the same with China now, except it's more for direct commercial reasons than to protect the ideal of Capitalism as it was before. I grew up getting a lot of "evil commies" messages in US American media and I'm not even in USA (I'm from UK).

> I grew up getting a lot of "evil commies" messages in US American media and I'm not even in USA

There's more than one reason for that, here is one that might be easy to overlook when someone is critizising USA with good reason:

America is not perfect but as a citizen and compared to the bad old commies it was mostly really good.

See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago

Re: FaceApp Now Owns Access to More Than 150M People's Faces and Names

#142

Post by somatic » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #54

sailingparrot wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't 'willingly' give anything. Like any app, you launch it and you accept the EULA. Then it asks you for permission to use your camera and for your contacts: it makes sense you want to take selfies and share them. That's it, now all your data belong to them. There is no functional difference between an app that will siphon all your private data and an app that won't. for the vast majority of users, at no poin…

This still lines up exactly with what I’m saying. Defending your privacy means you need to stop and ponder these things. People don’t know that they need to do this. You don’t need to read the terms. You “just” need to assume nefarious intent unless demonstrated otherwise.

People have reasonable expectations of privacy.

They expect their phone calls not to be recorded. They expect that their emails are treated with the same inviolability as their letters were. They expect their letters to be as they were before the advent of technologies that governments are now using to mass record the contents of letters without opening them, of which technologies and practices they have no knowledge.

All of these expectations, and many more, are now ritually violated in the most outrageous manner.

It isn’t the responsibility of the individual to combat every violation of his person. Not only is it an unreasonable expectation for society’s “default setting” to be the casual violation of its citizens, but it’s also literally impossible for even the richest, smartest, and most diligent among us to avoid getting screwed... in some way... when there are so, so, SO many ways to get screwed.

Because, in 2019, if your highest priority is NOT getting screwed, you might literally have to live alone in a cabin in the mountains.

Which is why you can take your atomic-individual libertarian “oh you “just” need to somehow avoid every omnipresent feature of contemporary life” and take a fucking hike.

I demand the right to walk to the grocery, buy a sandwich, walk to the park, eat the sandwich, and walk home, without having my minute-by-minute location invisibly and undetectably recorded and sent to ANY corp/gov, my purchase recorded and sent to ANY corp/gov, my face/gait/person scanned and analyzed by ANY corp/gov, etc. and so forth.

And I should have to take no special action for any of this, because this is the default setting.

Re: FaceApp Now Owns Access to More Than 150M People's Faces and Names

#143

Post by skizm » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

idop wrote: post #136

skizm wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These arguments are exactly why most people I meet say they don't care how much info they give to random apps. They assume since Google has all the info already anyway, why should they care if one more nameless faceless corp gets it? Plus companies have had all this personal data for a long time now and nothing bad has happened. The only argument I've had even a little success with is "it makes it easier for identity…

I feel it's very easy to counter this argument too. A person can choose to trust specific persons/organizations/governments with their personal information. For example they'll share secrets with some friends but not with all of them. But from there to go to "oh well I've given it to one I might as well just give it to all of them" is very naive and I would even say defeatist.

Defeatist in what sense though? No one I've spoken to feels "defeated" by paying for social media with their data. Most people have experienced exactly zero negative consequences for giving out all their personal info in exchange for access to social media or whatever app is currently popular. So why bother fighting every app for control of info that's already out there and has caused no harm in the past?

Re: FaceApp Now Owns Access to More Than 150M People's Faces and Names

#144

Post by PretzelFisch » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 4:48 PM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #41

Is "what your face looks like" private information? You publicly display your face everywhere you go all the time. It's not really practical to hide it. Likewise your name you pretty much freely give out to anyone who asks. Is that private information? So Faceapp knows "There's a person with this name who looks like this". Was that supposed to be a secret? I'm concerned about privacy too, but it seems like some peopl…

Is your dmv drivers license private?

Re: FaceApp Now Owns Access to More Than 150M People's Faces and Names

#145

Post by somatic » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

idop wrote: post #136

skizm wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These arguments are exactly why most people I meet say they don't care how much info they give to random apps. They assume since Google has all the info already anyway, why should they care if one more nameless faceless corp gets it? Plus companies have had all this personal data for a long time now and nothing bad has happened. The only argument I've had even a little success with is "it makes it easier for identity…

I feel it's very easy to counter this argument too. A person can choose to trust specific persons/organizations/governments with their personal information. For example they'll share secrets with some friends but not with all of them. But from there to go to "oh well I've given it to one I might as well just give it to all of them" is very naive and I would even say defeatist.

The average person does not understand the implications of their actions vis-à-vis IT companies and their personal information.

Moreover, their actions do not affect only themselves, but also all of the people with whom they regularly interact, regardless of whether or not those people themselves have “chosen” to “opt in”.

There is only one solution to this problem, and it is political in nature.

Re: FaceApp Now Owns Access to More Than 150M People's Faces and Names

#146

Post by gioele » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 4:53 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #20

We keep harping on about privacy, and then shit like this happens. There are two possible conclusions to draw. One is that the general public actually doesn’t care about privacy at all. It’s a niche concern. The other is that the general public cares but is completely and utterly clueless about how to defend themselves, to the point that an app can literally say “give us your name and face and we can do whatever we w…

> One is that the general public actually doesn’t care about privacy at all. It’s a niche concern.

There is an established term for this innate human trait: "dancing pigs".

> In computer security, the "dancing pigs" is a term or problem that describes computer users' attitudes to computer security. It states that users will continue to pick an amusing graphic even if they receive a warning from security software that it is potentially dangerous. In other words, users choose their primary desire features without considering the security.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_pigs

Re: FaceApp Now Owns Access to More Than 150M People's Faces and Names

#147

Post by mtranzambetti » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC

stunt wrote: post #16

The coverage on FaceApp and the way they talk about it is ridiculous. When it comes for instance to Snapchat's numbers, the coverage is about the success of the company. How is FaceApp different than all other apps and social networks that are storing all your photos with location and tags to your friends except that FaceApp is a Russian company? I'm not defending FaceApp. I don't use social networks either for the s…

"The panic about FaceApp’s old-person filter isn’t wrong, exactly. It’s just tinged with xenophobia and devoid of context."

Re: FaceApp Now Owns Access to More Than 150M People's Faces and Names

#148

Post by adventured » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

yogthos wrote: post #130

stunt wrote: post #16

The coverage on FaceApp and the way they talk about it is ridiculous. When it comes for instance to Snapchat's numbers, the coverage is about the success of the company. How is FaceApp different than all other apps and social networks that are storing all your photos with location and tags to your friends except that FaceApp is a Russian company? I'm not defending FaceApp. I don't use social networks either for the s…

Turns out that as long as the all powerful companies spying on you are located in California then it's totally fine.

Then why have US tech companies like Facebook taken so much flack in the past year for privacy issues? The fact that that has been the case, contradicts your underlying point. Further, on a personal level it likely depends on where you're located.

As an American, it matters to me whether the company doing the spying is located in California or Russia. If you're Russian, you might particularly care if the company in question is in California instead of Russia.

Russia is a hyper regressive, anti liberal, anti democratic, low human rights, dictatorship. My interests are particularly not served by allowing companies from Russia to spy on me.

Re: FaceApp Now Owns Access to More Than 150M People's Faces and Names

#149

Post by idop » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

skizm wrote: post #143

idop wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel it's very easy to counter this argument too. A person can choose to trust specific persons/organizations/governments with their personal information. For example they'll share secrets with some friends but not with all of them. But from there to go to "oh well I've given it to one I might as well just give it to all of them" is very naive and I would even say defeatist.

Defeatist in what sense though? No one I've spoken to feels "defeated" by paying for social media with their data. Most people have experienced exactly zero negative consequences for giving out all their personal info in exchange for access to social media or whatever app is currently popular. So why bother fighting every app for control of info that's already out there and has caused no harm in the past?

I definitely agree with this, although even for the "zero negative consequences" argument I usually counter with "one of your friends loaded all their contacts into some app that shows them who's calling them, and now you're bombarded with text messages offering you black market loans, tons of marketing calls, etc." (which is actually true in Israel).

Anyway, I was going with "defeatist" mostly because it reminded me of an attitude I personally sometimes display when it comes to being overweight: "I already ate above my maintenance window today, I might as well just eat everything in the pantry and fridge and order some family-size pizzas". So, "I've already failed once, might as well keep failing."

Re: FaceApp Now Owns Access to More Than 150M People's Faces and Names

#150

Post by GCA10 » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 5:02 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #20

We keep harping on about privacy, and then shit like this happens. There are two possible conclusions to draw. One is that the general public actually doesn’t care about privacy at all. It’s a niche concern. The other is that the general public cares but is completely and utterly clueless about how to defend themselves, to the point that an app can literally say “give us your name and face and we can do whatever we w…

In aggregate, people's desire to be noticed is vastly larger than their desire for privacy.

The latest case -- going beyond anything I can parody -- is this first-person NYTimes tell-all about a married couple being overheard in the midst of a sexual morning.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/12/well/family/when-our-daug...

Why bother sounding alarms about Alexa, Google Voice, etc. perhaps listening to our bedroom conversations? There's a slice of the public that will go to a lot of trouble (write article, etc.) to make sure that such moments become public.