33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured • Hacker News Board

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#71

Post by Razengan » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:10 PM UTC

goldenkey wrote: post #48

maeln wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting so little value in other people life is a mental illness. Its not a question of perception. Considering your intellectual / material property over someone life is being a sociopath.

It totally is a question of perception and philosophy. Death is literally a part of life. We all die. The value of life is what you make of it. The fact that this arsonist got roasted himself shows his perspective on the idea of "precious bodies" in general. He was wronged, palgiarized, steamrolled by an idomitable corporation and had no recourse. Je expressed in through corporeal action. You may disagree with the mo…

At what point would you draw the line over "killing for something?"

How about religion? Voices in someone's head? What if they affected you or your loved ones? Will you still laud their ""principles""?

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#72

Post by bogwog » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:11 PM UTC

m0llusk wrote: post #41

devilmoon wrote: post #28

Apparently the motivation for the attack was that "KyoAni has stolen something from the attacker", unconfirmed reports that the something in question was a Light Novel the attacker wrote but got rejected by KyoAni, which apparently then got turned into an original work by the studio (possibly stealing here and there from the LN or anyhow drawing inspiration from it) without crediting the attacker or compensating him.…

Intellectual property issues once again. People think they own ideas and glorify themselves as originators. In reality once an idea is communicated it is free. All people can really do is add value to an idea by promoting it, framing it, demonstrating it, aiding in its application, and so on. Yet here intellectual property has scaled beyond mere value into critical relevance and even a person's identity itself. An in…

> Intellectual property issues once again. People think they own ideas and glorify themselves as originators.

A novel isn't an "idea", it's a work of art. Copyright law protects artists from having their work copied. You don't need to "glorify yourself" to believe that you should have that basic right.

Going on a killing spree because someone stole your idea is obviously insane, but I can understand the frustration. Someone can spend years of their life working on a single piece, and having it stolen is like someone stole those years from you. The incentives to steal work like this are huge which is why copyright law needs to exist, otherwise we'd have either more killing sprees or less art.

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#73

Post by overthemoon » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:13 PM UTC

goldenkey wrote: post #48

maeln wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting so little value in other people life is a mental illness. Its not a question of perception. Considering your intellectual / material property over someone life is being a sociopath.

It totally is a question of perception and philosophy. Death is literally a part of life. We all die. The value of life is what you make of it. The fact that this arsonist got roasted himself shows his perspective on the idea of "precious bodies" in general. He was wronged, palgiarized, steamrolled by an idomitable corporation and had no recourse. Je expressed in through corporeal action. You may disagree with the mo…

The key thing people are misunderstanding about this issue is that not all points of view/ideologies/worldviews are morally neutral. The reasoning goes: Since no one could rationally choose to harm another person, there must be some pathological reason he chose to harm someone. But it's basically and simply true that people do things in their right minds all the time that lead to suffering. OP's point is that pathologizing behavior you don't like cuts off all reasoning about it.

John Brown killed people, but was he mentally ill? What about US soldiers in Afghanistan? Put another way, there are plenty of smart white supremacists. They're not all toothless knuckle dragging illiterates. Some are highly educated. It's possible to do bad things not due to a defect in education or mental illness, but through moral deficiency. People in their right minds do evil things.

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#74

Post by l33tbro » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:14 PM UTC

goldenkey wrote: post #42

mabbo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's half of it (if true). The other half is a mentally ill person.

Explain to my why you value life over principles in a universe that neither designates value to either? Having a different world view does not make a person mentally ill. Willing to die for principles means strong feelings, no more, no less. You may find what he did heinous but violent behavior is not necessarily indicative of mental illness. It just tends to be a combination of 3 things: 1) value of self biology/lif…

Talk to me about principles of the universe when you are being burnt alive because of some rogue psycho.

Of course violence and mental illness aren't mutually inclusive - but serene individuals don't set fire to buildings full of people. So why bring up this edgy bullshit in this context?

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#75

Post by sigmar » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:15 PM UTC

m0llusk wrote: post #41

devilmoon wrote: post #28

Apparently the motivation for the attack was that "KyoAni has stolen something from the attacker", unconfirmed reports that the something in question was a Light Novel the attacker wrote but got rejected by KyoAni, which apparently then got turned into an original work by the studio (possibly stealing here and there from the LN or anyhow drawing inspiration from it) without crediting the attacker or compensating him.…

Intellectual property issues once again. People think they own ideas and glorify themselves as originators. In reality once an idea is communicated it is free. All people can really do is add value to an idea by promoting it, framing it, demonstrating it, aiding in its application, and so on. Yet here intellectual property has scaled beyond mere value into critical relevance and even a person's identity itself. An in…

I'd also like to add that not only do people have too much confidence in their "ownership" of an idea, but people severely underestimate the extent to which their idea was influenced by the cultural zeitgeist (which frequently accounts for collisions and false charges of plagiarism).

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#76

Post by Razengan » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:15 PM UTC

aaron695 wrote: post #10

This wasn't arson, it was an attack. Some news reports the fuel was used on people. Sounds so far like mental illness, so perhaps 'attack' Seems probably 30 dead.

Is "arson" generally not considered a targeted attack?

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#77

Post by fisherwithac » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:15 PM UTC

dangThatSucks wrote: post #53

fisherwithac wrote: post #26

For those who are able to and want to help, there's a GoFundMe campaign right now to help the studio recover [0]. There isn't much of an explanation of what the money will go towards, but it's better than doing nothing IMO. I'm not a huge consumer of anime/manga, but some of my favorites (namely, Nichijou and Full Metal Panic) have come from this studio. I'm also aware that the industry as a whole is considered to be…

Do we know if the (apparently Texan) organizer of that fundraiser is affiliated with the victims in any way, or is credible, or might that be a scam?

From what I can tell, yes.

According to their about page [0], they're a licensing/localization company for Japanese animation. Looking at their catalog [1], they've localized various Kyoto Animation productions.

As other comments on this thread have pointed out, the company also shared the campaign on their Twitter account.

[0] - http://www.sentaifilmworks.com/about

[1] - http://www.sentaifilmworks.com/catalog

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#78

Post by falcolas » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:16 PM UTC

Mengkudulangsat wrote: post #9

mrpara wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still true. Japanese animators are paid by the pennies and work ridiculous hours. Since they're often paid on a per-frame basis rather than hourly pay, sometimes it adds up to less than minimum hourly wage. KyoAni was actually one of the few who were known to pay reasonably well, and they also had sort of dormitories slash training facilities for their animators. As for computers, generally speaking the frames a…

Why though?! It frustrates me that the industry have to rely on fans / foreign distributors / bootleg to get an audience out of Japan. Leaves so much money on the table. I would be more than happy to pay Eiichiro Oda and his team for an english .pdf of the latest One Piece delivered to my inbox the second it comes out.

> Why though?!

There's not a ton of money in the Anime industry. Especially over-seas, since translation is a very labor intensive and largely manual process.

There's also not a guaranteed audience for an anime. They have to rely on fans of the existing works (typically light novels) to view the (often drastically different) animes. I've seen a few of my favorite series get dropped due to being too niche.

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#79

Post by s9w » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

Three people in here immediately blamed this on mental illness/mental health. That feels like such a strange reaction and oversimplification to this.

If what I read is true: The work of the person who did this did get his work stolen and maybe as a consequence missed out on a lot of money. Then doing something like this might be quite an overreaction, but is at least in the realm of understandable, no? Revenge is in human nature.

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#80

Post by Jach » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:19 PM UTC

gregallan wrote: post #68

CryptoPunk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Major US cities are overrun by drug addicts suffering from severe mental illnesses, with literally thousands dying from overdoses every year.

This is pure whataboutism. The parent comment said nothing about the US to even imply there isn’t also a problem there.

On the contrary, the GP is a (light) instance of the chinese robber fallacy. https://rationalconspiracy.com/2015/03/08/the-chinese-robber... They're using "a generic problem to attack a specific person or group, even though other groups have the problem just as much (or even more so)" and should be called out on it.