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Girls’ advantage in reading can largely explain the gender gap in STEM

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Re: Girls’ advantage in reading can largely explain the gender gap in STEM

#31

Post by michaelt »

johnrbent wrote: post #19

I don't know much about this field (and I did not purchase the full article), but it seems like quite a leap to assume this is a source of the gender-gap. First of all, you're talking about 80% of one standard deviation difference in reading-to-math scores between males and females - that doesn't seem like enough to study it as the cause of anything. And how does being better at reading steer people away from STEM? T…

  And how does being better at reading
  steer people away from STEM?
By steering them towards non-STEM.

Re: Girls’ advantage in reading can largely explain the gender gap in STEM

#32

Post by rowanG077 »

JoeNr76 wrote: post #15
rowanG077 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't “math intensive fields”, they are "calculation intensive fields".

I think you should check your irony meter.

dragonwriter was obviously being ironic. Meaning he thinks those ARE "math intensive fields". Which they really aren't.

Re: Girls’ advantage in reading can largely explain the gender gap in STEM

#33

Post by michaelt »

darklion wrote: post #27
DanBC wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> than I do to areas where males perform worse. This is only because you're not looking.

Can you point to fields where male under-representation is given the same weight as fields with male over-representation? This isn't a troll--I'm genuinely interested in seeing which fields and areas are trying to promote more balanced gender representation.

There are campaigns for things like nursing [1]

  “Through these campaigns [...] to challenge the
  stereotypical image of nursing as a female career so the
  increase of 9% among male applicants (19% among 18 year
  olds) is particularly excellent news.
Also for things like teaching [2].

And for things like professional-level ballet schools recruit 50% male and 50% female, despite many more female applicants, due to the practical needs of teaching partnering.

[1] https://www.england.nhs.uk/2019/02/young-male-nursing-applic... [2] https://www.tes.com/news/so-you-want-get-more-men-primary-te...

Re: Girls’ advantage in reading can largely explain the gender gap in STEM

#34

Post by peatmoss »

mac_was wrote: post #26

Maybe just most women aren’t interested in STEM, like most men aren’t interested in hairdressing? Those who are, both men and women, can get jobs as I see women being very good programmers and men being very good hair dressers

We tend to see differences and fit an explanation.

- For some, the differences are explainable by completely benign reasons (“girls just aren’t interested / girls have a comparative advantage in non-STEM fields”),

- others see a conspiracy of intention (“men are trying to keep women out”),

- others see a malevolent but unconscious system (“thoughtless behaviors drive women away”),

- others see a relatively benign but unconscious system (“girls are given dolls where boys are given computers”)

I am old enough to remember being bullied in school for being into computers. I remember one or two girls along the way that hung out with the rest of us nerds in the computer labs. Nobody much cared about the gender breakdown as far as I could tell—most of the adult men and women I knew expressed something between distaste and hostility to the notion that a youngster would waste so much time on these stupid toys.

I think once computers established their bonafides as an economic ladder, people started to take note. But by that time, those of us relegated to hiding from bullies in the computer labs came to be the face of the computer industry. I suspect that probably exerts subtle pressure on the younger generation to conform (“these people don’t look like me, listen to my music, understand my culture, share my gender—I guess this just isn’t what my people do.”

I suspect people encounter some degree of all of these things. This kind of research study is interesting in trying to suss our relative contribution.

Re: Girls’ advantage in reading can largely explain the gender gap in STEM

#35

Post by hackeraccount »

johnrbent wrote: post #19

I don't know much about this field (and I did not purchase the full article), but it seems like quite a leap to assume this is a source of the gender-gap. First of all, you're talking about 80% of one standard deviation difference in reading-to-math scores between males and females - that doesn't seem like enough to study it as the cause of anything. And how does being better at reading steer people away from STEM? T…

The funny version I heard was basically that girls are like super humans compared to boys. They're good at Math but they're also good at non-Math too. The boys on the other hand are bad at Math compared to the girls. They're also bad at non-Math but they're not equally bad. They're really really bad at non-Math and merely bad at Math.

What to do? For the boys the choice is easy - go with what you're best at. For the girls on the other hand it's harder - what do you do if you're good at everything? The answer is to do whatever you enjoy the most. So all the boys go into STEM and the girls spread their talents all over the map.

It's probably not a true deception of reality but it's certainly a funny one.

Re: Girls’ advantage in reading can largely explain the gender gap in STEM

#36

Post by tickerticker »

0815test wrote: post #7
darkwater wrote: post #3

Is this suggesting that girls do not choose STEM faculties because they can read better so they like more humanistic faculties, where there are more texts (as in literature books) to read? Or my text comprehension is that bad?

It may be that the advantage in reading simply correlates with stronger interest in people/'social' stuff and weaker interest in STEM - this would then be the actual causative factor. One could guess that being interested in people/stories/'social' things would incent girls to read more and get better and better at reading.

My hunch about the reading skills gap is that little boys like physical movement marginally more than little girls, thus boys struggle to sit still and read.

Re: Girls’ advantage in reading can largely explain the gender gap in STEM

#37

Post by jbob2000 »

hackeraccount wrote: post #35
johnrbent wrote: post #19

I don't know much about this field (and I did not purchase the full article), but it seems like quite a leap to assume this is a source of the gender-gap. First of all, you're talking about 80% of one standard deviation difference in reading-to-math scores between males and females - that doesn't seem like enough to study it as the cause of anything. And how does being better at reading steer people away from STEM? T…

The funny version I heard was basically that girls are like super humans compared to boys. They're good at Math but they're also good at non-Math too. The boys on the other hand are bad at Math compared to the girls. They're also bad at non-Math but they're not equally bad. They're really really bad at non-Math and merely bad at Math. What to do? For the boys the choice is easy - go with what you're best at. For the…

I’ve had this thought that intelligence and talent is actually very limiting. You need to be a little stupid to sit in front of a computer for 10 hours straight. You need to be a little stupid to go into a coal mine, or work on a fishing boat, or chase down criminals.

As much as we like to think talent = productivity, maybe it’s more of a curve? You need to be just talented enough to maximize productivity. Too much talent and you never get anything done.

Re: Girls’ advantage in reading can largely explain the gender gap in STEM

#38

Post by jbob2000 »

jdavis703 wrote: post #21
orwin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly. From what i understood, this article is telling that if someone feel he is better at reading/comprehension than he is at math, he is more likely to not go into math-related field, regardless of his math performance compared to the average. To dumb it up, most of the time, you don't go into a math-related field because you compare your math skills with other, but because you compare your math skills with…

Me and my sister were homeschooled and only one grade level apart. So this ancedote is kind of like a twin study. We both did great at reading, in most years on standardized California Achievement Tests we'd be in the 98th or top percentile for reading. On the other hand for math we were always below the median, sometimes our score was so low we were in danger of the state forcing us to be in public school. These res…

When growing up, did you equally share duties around the house?

One of the guys I grew up with was the middle child between two girls. Girls never had to do chores, he helped with garbage and dishes, and in later years, helped with renos and yard work.

My point being that he was basically trained from birth to be productive, whereas his sisters were always allowed to explore their creativities (since they didn’t have to do chores). His sisters both have liberal arts degrees and have bounced around jobs, but he owns a very successful landscaping company.

Re: Girls’ advantage in reading can largely explain the gender gap in STEM

#39

Post by braindouche »

jbob2000 wrote: post #37
hackeraccount wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny version I heard was basically that girls are like super humans compared to boys. They're good at Math but they're also good at non-Math too. The boys on the other hand are bad at Math compared to the girls. They're also bad at non-Math but they're not equally bad. They're really really bad at non-Math and merely bad at Math. What to do? For the boys the choice is easy - go with what you're best at. For the…

I’ve had this thought that intelligence and talent is actually very limiting. You need to be a little stupid to sit in front of a computer for 10 hours straight. You need to be a little stupid to go into a coal mine, or work on a fishing boat, or chase down criminals. As much as we like to think talent = productivity, maybe it’s more of a curve? You need to be just talented enough to maximize productivity. Too much t…

It's a thing, and well-studied, at least on some levels. The top achievers in any given high school cohort usually aren't the kids with the highest measured IQs, for instance, and the kids with the highest measured IQs aren't usually more successful after graduation.

Re: Girls’ advantage in reading can largely explain the gender gap in STEM

#40

Post by jdavis703 »

jbob2000 wrote: post #38
jdavis703 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me and my sister were homeschooled and only one grade level apart. So this ancedote is kind of like a twin study. We both did great at reading, in most years on standardized California Achievement Tests we'd be in the 98th or top percentile for reading. On the other hand for math we were always below the median, sometimes our score was so low we were in danger of the state forcing us to be in public school. These res…

When growing up, did you equally share duties around the house? One of the guys I grew up with was the middle child between two girls. Girls never had to do chores, he helped with garbage and dishes, and in later years, helped with renos and yard work. My point being that he was basically trained from birth to be productive, whereas his sisters were always allowed to explore their creativities (since they didn’t have…

I like to think so. We were both essentially left with the order of "the house should be clean when I get home from work." From there we usually rotated dish washing, tidying common areas, etc.
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