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Ask HN: How to deal with constantly getting cut off in work discussions?

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Re: Ask HN: How to deal with constantly getting cut off in work discussions?

#141

Post by saurik »

dmlorenzetti wrote: post #96
carlosdp wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this issue too, I think it also has to do a bit with cultural background sometimes. I grew up in a hispanic family in a majority hispanic community, where my everyday conversation with people was people talking over each other. It was common to start making your point while the other person was still finishing theirs. The difference is, because everyone did it, we would just keep talking , even if we were cut…

"One of the most striking aspects of high involvement style that I found and analyzed in detail was the use of what I called 'cooperative overlap': a listener talking along with a speaker not in order to interrupt but to show enthusiastic listenership and participation. The concept of overlap versus interruption became one of the cornerstones of my argument that the stereotype of New York Jews as pushy and aggressive…

I like this terminology of "high involvement"! My experience with this style is also that if someone doesn't interrupt me I just keep talking, awkwardly, _hoping_ that someone will start talking "with" me (allowing me to pass the conversational baton, and indicating they understand my point), and if no one does I feel like no one must be understanding what I am saying (or worse, that no one is even listening) and eventually feel more and more antsy until I almost have to give up on the whole conversation.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with constantly getting cut off in work discussions?

#142

Post by tchaffee »

asfarley wrote: post #120
stcredzero wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's best to think of this in terms of "safety." Interruption is a dark pattern. It enables the user of the pattern to gain more attention and get more "turns" at speaking, but does it at the expense of group members being able to express complicated or difficult concepts. It's a pattern which suppresses thought and information.

Do you see the value in interrupt-based software? Why should there be any real distinction between software message-passing and human message-passing? The complete rejection of interruption-during-conversation is equivalent to the denial of existence of far-too-long monologues, isn't it?

"Excuse me this is taking too long, please wrap up" is not the same as taking over the conversation.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with constantly getting cut off in work discussions?

#143

Post by doodliego »

AareyBaba wrote: post #109

The meeting organizer/manager needs to control the meeting. For in-person meetings, I am constantly watching for people who raise their hands or try to get a word in. If necessary, I cut the people monopolizing the conversation and make sure those people get a chance to speak. For the wallflowers at the meeting I make sure to reserve some time at the end when people who haven't spoken get a chance to speak up. For on…

The problem is definitely more noticeable on skype and other types of conference calls, because you miss all the nonverbal cues and loudmouthed narcissists can easily take over and derail all conversations with their voice alone.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with constantly getting cut off in work discussions?

#146

Post by funkaster »

I've been working in the Bay Area for 8 years now, it's not the area, it's your specific workplace. It would happen anywhere in the world. I would assume your leads (EM/PM) are not doing their job correctly. There has to be someone helping moderate the discussion and making sure you're getting somewhere relevant.

If it's a problem, raise it and propose a change in the meeting process. Ask for someone (or volunteer) that keeps track of the meeting agenda and makes people accountable.

IMO adding process that helps structure conversation in places where it's not happening naturally helps tremendously. There's some friction initially, but if implemented correctly, benefits appear really early on.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with constantly getting cut off in work discussions?

#147

Post by agentultra »

I too preserve my energy.

I’ve internalized patience. I’m not in a rush to be heard or make a point. I use the time others are speaking to listen and formulate my response. Then when it is my turn to speak I try to limit myself only to what needs to be said.

It can be very hard on me to do this. Especially when the conversation steers into something I am passionate about or I am completely uninterested in. It takes a lot of practice and energy to be polite, show interest, and listen to what is being said.

I find that the most effective technique in my arsenal is to wait. Then when there is a moment of silence I turn the tables and repeat back what it is I heard from the other person in my own words. I may ask a question or two to ensure I completely understand what they are saying. I find that there are many cultures where it is unusual and disarming for others to intentionally try to understand you. Once someone is aware they are being interviewed and their thoughts are being thoroughly and fairly considered I find the conversation turns into my favour and I can get my point across without having to interject.

Shouting over people to get attention is.. odd. I mean I have to do that with my children because they are not old enough to be considerate and hold a conversation. But I resist the temptation with them. If I am quiet and patient they listen better.

And sometimes none of this works. If I get into a conversation with more than one person and everyone is moving too quickly I simply cannot handle it. I politely remove myself from the conversation and follow up through back channels with individuals as necessary.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with constantly getting cut off in work discussions?

#148

Post by newnewpdro »

Something I've noticed is there's a strong correlation between people bulldozing in meetings/conversations at the office and being recently/overly caffeinated.

I haven't tried this myself, but it might help to question the person doing it as being potentially overcaffeinated in the moment. Maybe it can be done playfully, without being combative. Something like "Man, how much coffee did you drink today? You're out of control."

Also, it's kind of an arms race if this is what's going on. What you can do is caffeinate yourself and fight fire with fire, if you don't mind a caffeine dependence.

Caffeine is like a mild form of cocaine. It similarly tends to make people arrogant, overconfident, loud, impatient, obnoxious, talkative, and over eager.

At my last office position, which was in SF, I absolutely hated most of the social interactions because people were abusing caffeine like a pile of junkies. The lunchroom had a dedicated corner full of coffee making apparatuses and scales, it was completely ridiculous. There was enough equipment for half a dozen people to freshly gravity drip coffee simultaneously into their cups.

I basically don't use caffeine at all, and it was simply impossible to tolerate communicating with most of the employees in any serious topic. They would just go a million miles an hour and bulldoze right over my entirely sober state. Rather than try match their energy level and agressiveness I'd just walk away and engage virtually on IRC/slack/github instead.

SF in general strikes me as a city full of addicts. In the office people were largely high on caffeine, and outside the office they would get drinks nearly every day after work. It's definitely not for everybody, and I had a better experience in this regard working in Silicon Valley (Mountain View).

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with constantly getting cut off in work discussions?

#149

Post by RickJWagner »

I suffer from this problem on videoconferences. I work in a home office with residential-quality bandwidth, and I think there's a slight lag in the video and audio. I try to let everyone complete their thoughts, so by the time I try to speak someone else is usually already filling the silence.

I haven't found a good way around it yet.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with constantly getting cut off in work discussions?

#150

Post by vonholstein »

agentultra wrote: post #147

I too preserve my energy. I’ve internalized patience. I’m not in a rush to be heard or make a point. I use the time others are speaking to listen and formulate my response. Then when it is my turn to speak I try to limit myself only to what needs to be said. It can be very hard on me to do this. Especially when the conversation steers into something I am passionate about or I am completely uninterested in. It takes a…

+1 I agree with waiting. In fact I'm personally coming around to the point of view that 90% of verbal technical discussions miss a key point which becomes very evident on reflection and/or are an inefficient use of time(N developers * x minutes and so on). You can be much more effective by writing a doc about the subject, reviewing it over email/Slack with an in-person discussion if required.
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