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Cities: Skylines Is Turing Complete

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Re: Cities: Skylines Is Turing Complete

#112

What does turing complete mean?

Essentially it means that City Skylines could compute anything that it is possible to compute, given enough time. Therefore it is functionally equivalent to the computer you're typing on. In reality, like all computers, it has memory constraints which limit what it can do. A true Turing machine needs infinite memory, which is impossible.

Re: Cities: Skylines Is Turing Complete

#113
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, Minecraft only added redstone to explicitly allow logic gates after users had found out how to create them out of flowing water and other select blocks.

Minecraft construction is weird. Minecraft's reason for existing is that people think it's fun to make simple things mind-numbingly hard by using the crudest lowest-level building blocks, each block simualting with horridly monstrous gobs of computing powes). So it's the worst of both worlds -- an expensive simulator for tediously manipulting low-level primitives. Why not manipulate primivitives efficiently, or use h…

I am always on the lookout for something like Minecraft, but is geared towards construction in a large scale without the restriction of a first person view, ie having an RTS style zoomable God camera.

Re: Cities: Skylines Is Turing Complete

#114
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hey, it's not better or worse than any other way to guess. Saying this is a kind of relativism that closes you off to receiving criticism for this view. Here is some disagreement from the philosopher of information Luciano Floridi, "Against Digital Ontology": http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/4076/1/ado.pdf and its sister paper "A Defence of Informational Structural Realism": http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/down…

Your second link is dead. Might you be able to fix it? I'd really like to read it. Thanks!

Here's a (legal) free version: http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/3144/1/adoisr.pdf

I recommend this extension: https://unpaywall.org/

Re: Cities: Skylines Is Turing Complete

#115
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same goes for all the extensions. The Linux version is really solid.

The performance is a fraction of that on Windows though, from my experience.

Not my experience. Performance is pretty equal for me, always a bit laggy.

Re: Cities: Skylines Is Turing Complete

#116
Idea for the sci-fi story: after the civilization collapse, the only computing device that has survived is an arcade machine, with a difficult game that accidentally is Turing complete. People need to program it, so they can use the results to reboot the power/transportation/medical equipment/etc.

Re: Cities: Skylines Is Turing Complete

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't live in a computational universe. https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/physicists-find-we-re-not...

> There is a caveat to this conclusion: if our universe is a simulation, there is no reason that the laws of physics should apply outside it. In the words of Zohar Ringel, the lead author of the paper, “Who knows what are the computing capabilities of whatever simulates us?”

If simulation of an entire universe is possible, there are likely many more simulated universes than there are real ones.

You could say the probability of our universe being a sim is much higher than otherwise.

Re: Cities: Skylines Is Turing Complete

#118
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/peirce-semiotics/ I'm leaning on the fact that theories are significations of events, but significations are only possible when relative to an interpretive scheme that allows those events to be connected to the theory. A deep-math version of this would be picking whether or not you want to work with the axiom of choice or not when using groups to represent vectors (the groups and ve…

I find your arguments incredibly interesting. Would love to talk further via email or something if you're interested? hbmusu62ba39m07@jetable.org

I don't own a private email account, but the authors I could recommend are anything by the aforementioned pragmatists (particularly Peirce), work by Van Fraasen, and work by Macintyre. Kuhn and Laudan are also a big ones for science-focused stuff. I also brought up Floridi because he'd at least be sympathetic to the plight of computational theorists while also providing disagreement from the philosophical mainstream.

The point of all of the above is to realize that modern philosophy has made three different "turns":

1) The linguistic turn

2) The pragmatic turn

3) The discursive turn

All three point to the idea that almost all acts of knowledge are social and communicative acts, and that all claims being made between us are from perspectives we assume and inherit from others. They amount to saying that no inquiry is done in a vacuum, and all inquiry is open to criticism of some form or another. In which case we shouldn't expect to ever converge on a singular Truth, but rather be constantly negotiating a network of truths between ourselves as long as we are finite and limited beings.

These positions are reactions to middle-of-the-century philosophy that supposed that all knowledge can be treated through a uniform standard (like science, or logic, or faith), and that any knowledge which is true, is true without qualification or the need to ascribe context, including the context of our language or the context of our goals. Both of these positions can be considered "positivist", which is the philosophy that made physics productive in the 20th century but ended up being unhelpful for other fields (like economics or biology), as well as ignoring certain complexities that all forms of inquiry (including physics) share.

The primary struggle that positivists gain when they are exposed to these views is that they think it implies relativism. This isn't quite right, since it's possible to agree as well as disagree with people; but it does imply certain theses inconvenient to the goals of positivism, like the impossibility of a final theory between all modes of knowledge. It might be plausible to have a final theory with respect to a perspective or set of postulates -- like maybe an atomic theory of viruses -- but that would always be irreconcilable with other perspectives which have their own merits, leaving it to the individual to decide the value of each. The good news is that there is always room for thought.

This paper is also excellent for introducing the mechanics of semiotics in discourse, in that most discursive of disciplines, the Law. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0a7f/1fd305239da9232f182fbc... Law makes a good example since people have a lot of conceptions of what having rules of law means. We are obliged to the law by convention and negotiation, rather than by some eternal Truth. Likewise, to the extent that any science is discursive, there will be a sense in which it has to be legalistic, although there are more effective ways which we stop ourselves from spiraling into relativism here (primarily by instrumentation).

If you are willing to wait a bit I can get back to you on this once I have an email account.

Re: Cities: Skylines Is Turing Complete

#119
post #57

The idea of creating computers out of virtual objects has always fascinated me since I first saw someone do it in Minecraft. It really brings up some interesting scenarios that I like to day dream about sometimes. For instance, in a real world simulation, you could build a processor with a gazillion transistors because you don’t have to worry about the same physical limitations like size or heat. Could it take an inp…

> Essentially, in a simulation of the physical world that has tweaked physics, could information be processed faster than the processor running the simulation?

Nope, the simulator has to run it still - how would the simulation update anything unless being told to by the processor running the simulation?

Re: Cities: Skylines Is Turing Complete

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The performance is a fraction of that on Windows though, from my experience.

Might this be a memory issue? I run it on Xubuntu and noticed it sometimes uses all my 8GB RAM so the PC starts swapping.

Yeah, C:S will gobble RAM like there's no tomorrow, especially if you've got a lot of mods installed.
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