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How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

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Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#191

Post by jrochkind1 »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #91
jrochkind1 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't they give NAMES to these different types of cables? They seem to have either no names or too many names where it's unclear what is intended for the consumer. Just giving the cable a clear name (in words, not icons), so you could know what you were buying, and a device could say "you need this kind of cable", and a person could write a blog saying "to support DP-Alt-Mode you need X kind of cable" and all use…

They did, kind of. USB2, USB3.1 gen 1, and USB 3.1 gen 2 are 480mbps, 5gbps/DP-alt-mode and 10gbps/DP-alt-mode, respectively. The problem is really that people won't remember that distinction unless they need to know it regularly, and unless you know to Google "difference between USB 3.1 gen 1 gen 2" you won't be able to figure it out.

Have you ever seen those names on a box or Amazon listing?

I have been told those names were not intended for the consumer. (And indeed "USB 3.1 gen 2" vs "USB3.1 gen 1", seriously?).

I think there is another set of names, also inconsistent and unparallel with each other or the first set of names, intended for the consumer, that nobody can seem to figure out.

More precisely: "Why don't they give them _reasonable_ usable names, and only one set so everyone uses the same one?"

This still seems to be an obvious part of the design of the product to me.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#193

Post by AceJohnny2 »

Dunedan wrote: post #166
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the Thunderbolt FAQ [1] > What is Thunderbolt 3? > Computer ports with Thunderbolt 3 provide 40Gbps Thunderbolt – double the speed of the previous generation, USB 3.1 10Gbps, and DisplayPort 1.2 . I'm curious: which active cable did you use that didn't support DP? [1] https://thunderbolttechnology.net/tech/faq

What you quote is not related at all to what Thunderbolt cables support beside Thunderbolt. It just states that you can use Thunderbolt to transmit DisplayPort signals. By that you're utilizing the Thunderbolt alternate mode to tunnel DisplayPort signals, instead of using the DisplayPort alternate mode [1]. Using Thunderbolt to transmit DisplayPort signals only works with devices which support Thunderbolt, not with s…

Thanks for the clarification.

What a clusterfuck of a standard.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#194

Post by JohnFen »

derefr wrote: post #60
Causality1 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bloody goddamned nightmare. For example, a brief review of my devices: >Phone A. Type-C port limited to USB 2 data speeds but supports HDMI out via DisplayLink. >Phone B. Type-C port that supports USB 3.1 speeds but doesn't do video out. >Tablet A. Type-C port that supports USB 3 speeds but only charges through a MicroUSB port. >Tablet B. Type-C port that supports USB 3 speeds and charging, but only charges at…

I don't see your point. Devices are free to support or not support whatever capabilities they want. Having a specific port is no guarantee that the device will use this or that capability offered over that port; mostly it's a guarantee it'll use at least one capability offered by that port. The problem with USB-C is that many of the cables don't do everything. Nobody else is complaining that the devices don't do ever…

> Having a specific port is no guarantee that the device will use this or that capability offered over that port

And that's the serious underlying design flaw.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#195

Post by JohnFen »

derefr wrote: post #80
wongarsu wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a device has an HDMI port I know I can use that to connect a display. I don't know details like the supported resolutions, but at least I know that's a supported use case. If I notice that a device has a USB-C port all I really learned is that it has a USB-C port. Who knows what it does.

But that's most port standards that have ever existed. What can a device do with a parallel port? A serial port? A SCSI port? A Firewire port? Who knows? It's up to the device. It can certainly send signals over that port, of some kind. But what kind of signals? Up to the device. The host can hopefully probe a device-class out of the client and stand up an appropriate driver to talk to it. A CD player has a 3.5mm aud…

> But that's most port standards that have ever existed.

That's also the problem that USB solved. Until USB-C came around.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#196

Post by JohnFen »

manacit wrote: post #13

I've had a USB-C capable device (MBP) for a few years now, and it originally was extremely annoying. Needing dongles for _everything_ was annoying, and getting rid of Magsafe meant a lot of my existing chargers that I'd accumulated no longer worked. My work laptop (at the time) didn't use USB-C, so I had to keep two chargers around, and I couldn't charge my iPhone from my laptop at all. Fast forward a few years and I…

> I have a dock at home that I can plug both my work and personal laptop in and have it work seamlessly with two 4k monitors, gigabit ethernet, mouse, keyboard, speakers, etc.

Umm, so do I, but USB-C isn't involved.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#197

Post by johnnycab »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #190
johnnycab wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple would be actually courageous for switching to USB-C and forcing everyone's hand. Last time Apple was courageous ─ the headphone jack got killed. The word 'courage' was used to onboard Airpods and move the general trend towards sealing off most ingress points on a device; contemporaneously selling an adapter for a pretty penny. Whilst I agree that some manufacturers followed the above-mentioned trend. They were…

> Last time Apple was courageous ─ the headphone jack got killed. Hence my use of the word "actually" - the headphone jack situation is IMO anticonsumer, not courageous. As for EU involvement, it seems to have worked out for the best with forcing phone manufacturers to use USB for charging - I still remember the days of feature phones, where we were all drowning in phone chargers and (separate) data cables, as each b…

>As for EU involvement, it seems to have worked out for the best with forcing phone manufacturers to use USB for charging - I still remember the days of feature phones, where we were all drowning in phone chargers and (separate) data cables, as each brand and each model generation within the brand used different ports and voltages. It was ridiculous levels of plastic and electronics waste for the sake of business shenanigans.

You are romanticising the notion of Apple and EU being the standard rod-bearers. Despite using electrical waste and dubious business practices as a reason for EU involvement, it would seem that you are unaware of the saga of the 'common charger' and the villainous role played by Apple.

A key take-away:

The EU's failure to regulate, in essence, provides Apple with an argument to keep their own solution.

For Apple, the common charger is a success story – of regulation avoided.

https://euobserver.com/news/144538

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#198

Post by JohnFen »

breatheoften wrote: post #99

The standard absolutely needs to support the ability for computer and peripherals to detect what kind of cable is connected ... then we need consumer level implementation at the os to tell people when their cable is insufficient for the task they are trying to accomplish — with this, bring on all the cost saving measures for cables. Without it — fucking idiot standards committees can go rot in hell for the blight the…

> then we need consumer level implementation at the os to tell people when their cable is insufficient for the task they are trying to accomplish

The need for that alone is a big sign that the standard is flawed from a user perspective. Ideally, it should be impossible to use the wrong cable for a task. Traditionally, this is done by making the shape of the connector different.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#199

Post by msbarnett »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #172
msbarnett wrote: post #7

This only seems to be counting USB-C to USB-C USB 3 cables The actual situation is much worse when you add in passive and active C-to-C Thunderbolt, MHL, DP, and HDMI cables, some but not all combinations of which may or may not optionally support some but not all combinations of other signals as well — eg) a passive TB3 C-to-C cable will support DP and USB3 (but not MHL or HDMI), but an active TB3 C-to-C cable will…

The Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adaptor supports nothing except Target Disk Mode. I tried using it to connect a USB-C SSD to my MacBook Pro 2014, using a Thundebolt 2 M-M wire, and the adaptor plugged into the SSD enclosure. It didn't work, though thankfully it didn't fry anything either. The Thunderbolt adaptor also doesn't work with MiniDP-VGA or MiniDP-HDMI adaptors. So I would need to buy a whole new set…

> The Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adaptor supports nothing except Target Disk Mode.

This isn’t correct. I use it daily to connect a MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt 2 ports to a RAID enclosure/dock with Thunderbolt 3 ports via a TB2 cable terminated with this adapter. An external monitor is attached to the enclosure, as well as several USB devices. The display port alternate mode signal and USB hub functionality all works simultaneously with the RAID.

Of course, half the problem with USB-C is that the failures are incredibly opaque, so it’s hard to say why the adapter failed in your case. Maybe you plugged it into a USB 3 USB-C port instead of a TB3 USB-C port? My enclosure has separate USB-C ports for each protocol, and I need to be careful to select the right one.

Re: How many kinds of USB-C to USB-C cables are there?

#200

Post by jwr »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #168
jwr wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why don't they give NAMES to these different types of cables? The whole catchy idea behind USB-C (unfortunately perpetuated here by people who should know better) is that there is ONE SOCKET, ONE PLUG and ONE CABLE. Oh, the dream of using a single connector. Unfortunately, this is far from reality and the result is a complete mess, which is why I'm not a big fan of the whole USB-C thing. Especially given that I'm a…

I wish USB-C mandated one cable. Just one. If you cut anything out of it, if you did anything out of spec, it's not a valid USB-C cable anymore. You either have all features, or no features. There's nothing benefiting customers from this cable mess. It only enables dishonest businesses, as customers can't tell cables apart until they plug them in and try to use them.

You'd still get the problem of devices either supporting various modes or features or not.

The whole idea of "one connector that does everything" is flawed, unless you standardize what "everything" means and give users visual clues. Such as, oh, a different type of connector, like we used to have.

I get precisely ZERO benefit from using a USB-C connector for my monitor, I only get a large amount of pain.

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